Decoding the Divine: Exploring Profound Biblical Passages

So Hey everyone, welcome to That's Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church and a part of Resound Media. You can find more great content for the Christian life and church leaders at resoundmedia.cc. That's Good Question is the place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm Jon. I get to serve as a pastor at Peace Church as well as get to serve as part of this show. You can always submit questions at peacechurch.cc/questions. Today, I am here with one of the hosts of the Mom Guilt podcast, a teacher in our women's ministry at Peace Church, as well as, she's also my lovely wife.

Hello, good to be here.

Thanks for being here, Stephanie. Excited today to get to talk about some tough texts. People have asked some questions about some very specific Bible passages. And so that's what we're going to talk about today, is they write into some verses that are hard to understand.

Love those kind of questions, people send those in, that you're just studying along in your Bible and you come across something really hard. Always feel free to submit those questions. So we're going to try to tackle at least three of those today and see how that goes.

So here we go.

All right, the first one is this. In my devotions this morning, I was reading 1 Timothy 2.15, and the question is what does childbearing have to do with a woman's salvation? Such an interesting question such an interesting passage, so I'll read the passage a minute. Yeah, well initially okay as you pull it up

Initially I would say that it has a lot to do with it because it points out my need for salvation that much more Because so much in motherhood is like oh, no I messed up. Oh, no, you know it revealed the ugly sin I need salvation, but I kind of doubt that that might be what they were asking it for.

That's funny. And actually it's almost like you could do a podcast about that.

Almost. The guilt that comes with motherhood. Hey, I'm here to help.

I'm here to help you. All right. First, Symphony 215. Here's what it says. Well, actually I'll tell you what, let me, I'll read the verse even leading into it. This is a big paragraph. You're going to have more questions. Okay, go for it. Yeah. I'll just read the first couple of verses. There's lots in this paragraph we can talk about.

There is. And we have talked about in the past on this show, but here's, I'm gonna start in verse 13. It says, For Adam was formed first, then Eve, and Adam was not deceived,

but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Here's verse 15. Yet she will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control.

Yeah, so the question is, what does a woman's salvation have to do with childbearing? Because at first you read that and it seems that you are saved by having children. You almost read that and go, well, all moms go to heaven, just like that, that movie, all dogs go to heaven, all moms go to heaven. Right. But we would say, no, we don't think that that's really what that verse is talking about. But on first glance, I think this is a great question because it seems to say that, yeah, if you're a mom, you go to heaven, you're saved because you have had a child.

Yeah, it seems that way. We know that's not true, right?

This wise man once told me that the Bible doesn't contradict itself. And you have always encouraged me in asking questions. Sometimes it's really helpful to start of what does it not mean? And I think this might be a good start of what does this not mean? Because we would say there's other verses in the Bible that talk about you're saved through faith alone, right?

It makes me think of Ephesians 2, 8, and 9.

That's exactly what I was going to say.

Yeah, so it's not that we're saved by the work of childbearing, but what does it mean?

Yeah, so we're saved by grace, by God's grace as a gift through faith in Jesus, not by works.

Ephesians 2, 8, and 9 is a great passage to look at for that. So that's what we know it doesn't mean.

Yeah, so to give a couple of, so I read today a few different perspectives on this.

So this is one of those passages that is kind of unclear as to exactly what it means. Many of us look at it and think it's not quite clear exactly what it's talking about. I think there's some gray area, maybe some possible interpretation.

So two of the main ones that I saw, I'll just give you the two main ones and then kind of what I think. But the two main lines of thought are these either either one that word saved isn't meaning so much like salvation being justified becoming right with God as much as it means like being sanctified that you're saved through childbearing that you become more like

Jesus through childbearing which you kind of joked about and said that that's true that happens.

Yeah I mean that I see in my heart with motherhood all of the time. There are so often where through motherhood, it's really, especially in that newborn stage, you right away are really tired and you want to just sleep, but you can't. You kind of die to yourself. We talk about that sometimes in the church, you die to yourself to provide for something else that I might want to go take a nap, but I can't because I have this screaming newborn who needs to be fed and clothed and taken care of. And so through motherhood, it really teaches me to put aside my needs of what I need and to really lay that down so I can take care of another person.

Yeah. Which I think in a lot of ways really images what Christ did. I mean, he died himself for our salvation. And so there's some different ways that we can, through motherhood, kind of be a Christ-like figure to our child. But there's also some other ways in motherhood where it's just this constant battle of, you know, trying to fight this sin in my life, trying to fight this self-control, the selfishness that I have in order to show love to somebody else, which doesn't come as naturally as what I thought it would be. Like before you're a mom, you think, oh, of course, this is so easy. You're going to love your child. And yes, I love all of our children, as I'm sure you do as well.

But it does come with this ugly side that really reveals your sin.

Yeah, totally. Shows your selfishness. I've said before that marriage and having kids are two things that show you that you're a sinner.

Well, it's like that nursery school rhyme, like, first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes a baby in a baby carriage. Like there's kind of that progression with showing sanctification too. I think sometimes you can say, oh, I'm a really great person, and then you fall in love with somebody else and it kind of reveals maybe some lust that you're struggling with. You get married and you think, oh, I'm not that selfish.

And then you get married and that marriage reveals your selfishness. And then you have kids. And I think that level, again, just shows this deeper level of selfishness that I had in my heart. And so I just see this progression through marriage and then through childbearing, too, that it really is revealing of that sin.

Yeah. So it makes practical sense. Right. The argument makes practical sense. Some of the other there's some textual arguments that guys made. I mean, one is that in this paragraph, Paul's talking about the sanctification or what it's like to be a godly woman, like verses 9 and 10 in this paragraph. Talk about also kind of just the context and the setting, talking about in 1 Timothy 1,

3, there's false teaching going on in this church. In 4, 1, we see that there's talk about people turning to evil spirits. Later in chapter 4, there's talk about asceticism, people trying to be religious and earn their way. It talks about even having abstinence within marriage, which is not really something God prescribes but something people were doing because they thought it would make them look

even more holy. Maybe Paul is just saying that this normal domestic stuff of having kids is a good thing. So those are some of the arguments that I read for just this concept that So the argument about what the text means is that saved doesn't mean salvation But it means being sanctified and maybe that's what Paul's saying. So that's one argument. The other perspective The other major perspective is that the reference is To the seed of the woman going back to Genesis chapter 3 verse 15

So right before this verse in verses 13 and 14 in 1st Timothy, it's talking about Adam and Eve, so you can see how that makes sense, that's the context. And then, so if you don't know, in Genesis chapter 3, that's where the fall into sin happens. That's where Adam and Eve sin, they eat of the tree like God told them not to, they fall into sin, and in Genesis 3 verse 15 is where God promises hope. It's actually, I would say, it's the storyline of the whole rest of the Bible. So let me read it to you real quick, so you can make sense of this argument. It says, so there's God speaking to the serpent, the snake. He says, I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head and you will bruise his heel. Okay, so Genesis 3.15 is God's promise that there's going to be war for the rest of humanity, the rest of history, between the woman and the offspring of Satan, essentially. So there's going to be Satan and his people, there's going to be God and his people, and they're going to be at war with each other. And the day is going to come when a man, a descendant of the woman, on God's team is going to be bruised or injured or hurt by a follower of Satan. But ultimately, that son of the woman is going to have victory through defeat. Ultimately, that man is going to have victory over Satan by being defeated. And you can sort of imagine in the future what that looks like.

So we'd say that points to Jesus. Jesus is a seed of the woman. He's a child of Eve, and yet he's also the son of God who comes and he is defeated on the cross, or so he appears defeated,

and yet actually he gets victory through that defeat and ultimately crushes the head of Satan.

That makes a lot of sense too, because really then it's saying that women are safe through childbearing. Also, if that's what the verse is meaning, men are also safe through childbearing if the child that's referred to is Jesus.

Yeah, yeah. So personally I think that's actually the better argument, just based on the context of that they're already talking about Adam and Eve and I just think it makes, I just think it makes the most sense. It is a tough passage. You look at it and you're like, what in the world is going on here?

Saved through childbearing. But yeah, to me that makes the most sense to just say that yeah, childbearing is this amazing thing that God is gonna work through woman. It's one of the glories of woman that she gets to be the bearer of children and that ultimately the Savior's gonna come through that way and save all of humanity by coming and crushing the head of the serpent.

We'll be right back after this break.

Hi, I'm Elizabeth, one of the co-hosts of MomGuilt, a podcast with new episodes every Monday. MomGuilt is a podcast about the daily struggles of motherhood. Stephanie and I share real experiences of MomGuilt and how we have found freedom from that guilt through the gospel. Listen to us on Resoundmedia.cc or wherever you find podcasts. Either way, the answer is Jesus. You're saved through Jesus.

Yeah. Whether it's sanctification, it's still by Jesus.

Yeah. So, awesome question. Totally a hard text. I'm so glad that it was asked. So, let's go on. We got at least two more here. Let's talk about.

All right. So, the next one. Jacob and Esau. Let's talk about that story for a minute So here's the question as it came in person says I've always wondered about the story of Jacob and Esau Why does God bless Jacob and his descendants after he deceives his father and steals his brother's blessing? It doesn't seem fair All right, so good question So the passage if you want to look at it Genesis 25 and 27 those two chapters are kind of the biggest chapters that talk about this story between Jacob and Esau. Quick, if we remember the story, remember Jacob and Esau are both children of Isaac and Rebekah. Before they're even born, while they're in the womb, God says to Rebekah that the older will serve the younger. So Esau comes out first, but ultimately God has already said Jacob's the one who's going to be the promised line, the one for whom the nation of Israel is eventually going to come, ultimately going to come.

And then the story goes on that Esau sells his birthright to his brother for a bowl of soup at one point. And then at the end of Isaac's life, before their dad passes away, Jacob ultimately deceives his dad, tricks him into thinking that he's Esau so that he gets his blessing as well. So that's kind of the story. You can read it if you want to in Genesis 25 through 27.

But the question is, what in the world does Jacob, dude, does some bad things, and yet it all works out great for him in the end.

As you're saying this story, man, wouldn't this be like a great story for like a Christian soap opera? Like, can you just imagine the drama and all of these like turns it takes? It just makes me think of this would be some good television. I don't know if I could put Christian and Soprano in the same sentence. I don't know if that works. But you make a good point. Yeah, no, it's a great. Yeah, the Bible has some of the best stories. They're great stories. Yeah. And I think as you're saying that, yeah, it doesn't seem fair.

It seems like Jacob is this deceptive, conniving man, and why would God choose him? And I wonder if that's possibly the point of when you're reading this, so often I think good things should happen to good people and bad things should happen to bad people. And Jacob and Esau are not only brothers, but they're twins. And I think this is a case study almost of that's not the way God works.

Wow.

I think that's a really good point. Yeah, so we totally expect that the dude who does bad things should be punished. Now actually one of the things that we, so you look at Jacob's name, Jacob's name actually literally in Hebrew means deceiver or cheater.

That is so, like, okay, we have two sons. When we name one like cheater, deceiver, that's such an odd name.

We would not do that.

No, we didn't. We didn't do that.

Our daughters actually, if you remember, they were recently reading in their Bible storybook, Hosea. Remember they came across how Hosea's children were named, not my people, and no mercy. And they were pretty horrified at that idea.

Yeah, that's just an interesting idea too, that they named their son that because he was named before he acted or did any of that. Sure. You know, usually you would think a parent is going to name a child after something they aspire to. Like our son is named Levi

because we want him to be a man of the Lord with the Levites. And that just doesn't even seem like why would a parent name their child deceiver?

Yeah.

It's a great question. I don't know the answer to that.

We can ask when we get to heaven. Yeah, right. What were you thinking?

So to try to unpack the answer, so I mean, first of all, I think it's true that it's not fair. I think that's kind of what you're saying, right, is that the story doesn't come across fair and that's, we're not misreading it. That's the point. It doesn't seem fair that Jacob ends up with God, with Isaac's blessing and God's blessing

in the end. He's, you know, he's the father of the nation of Israel. That doesn't seem fair because he did some messed up bad things. He lied. He actually, I was rereading the story this morning thinking about this. Um, and I, I, one of the things that he says strikes me, his, uh, his dad starts to kind of get a sense that he's being tricked and he says, my son, how did you get the game so quickly to bring me this meal? And Jacob's answer is the Lord provided so quickly the animal. And I just, yeah, yeah. It really struck me that this just, man, he, yeah.

Took it to the next level.

It really kind of does. It takes it to the next level. You're lying about God. So Jacob does some bad stuff, but here's, I'll try to break down kind of what I think is going on in the passage. I think one of the things we got to realize is actually, first of all, Isaac's error and sin in the whole matter. So Isaac knew from before the boys were born what God's will was for Jacob and Esau, that God had designed for Jacob to be the one, for Jacob to be essentially the chosen line. And yet we read throughout their story that Isaac favors Esau, he prefers Esau, he's more manly, he's very hairy, the text tells us many times. Red, red and yellow. Red, red, yeah.

I don't know if this is, you know, the first Irishman or how that works, but he's also just an outdoorsman. He likes to hunt, whereas Jacob, it says, he was more inside, hung out with his mom, did some gardening instead of the hunting, you know. So Isaac makes a point of favoring the son that God has already said is not the chosen son. So Isaac's in error here.

And then even, you know, leading up to the blessing, Isaac sort of seems to be driven more by his stomach than he is by actually sort of following God's will for passing down to the next generation. Esau also married Canaanite women. Remember that part of the text?

That was a no-no.

Yeah, so Esau himself is also not going in the direction that God wants him to go, which should be another hint that for Isaac.

Doesn't the text also say that him and his wives cause trouble or stir up sorrow for his parents as well?

Yeah. So you got to start there with Isaac is actually in the wrong early on and throughout the boy's lives. Kent Hughes, who I read his commentary on this earlier today, he says, there's no heroes in this story, only sinners. I think that's what you were saying, is that part of the point of this story is that, yeah, none of us are good none of us have earned or deserve God's blessing but God decided to do it anyways and I think that's the best explanation of the story is is it fair no it's not fair but

God actually determined who is going to be blessed before either of the boys was born neither of them had the possibility to earn it it was it was just it was God's design it was God's plan and that's what played out more I'd say, in spite of each of the characters than because of what each of the characters did.

And I think as you were talking, too, you were saying that the dad favored kind of the more masculine one, the one that you would think of, and God didn't favor that. He chose Jacob. And I think, is there something to be said there about how culture views manhood? Because I think there's a conversation happening right now of almost like this toxic masculinity of what does it mean to be a man?

And I just, what do you think about that?

Oh boy, there's a lot we could say about that. There's a ton we could say about that. Oh man, I wouldn't even know where to begin on that. I mean, I think God, yeah, one thing we could say from that is that I don't think scripture says anywhere that being a man means being super hairy or hunting or having a big beard. But that's not, yeah, so there are definitely some things in our culture that we have elevated and said, these things make you a manly man, a masculine dude, and are not

healthy, godly things. Now, I think, unfortunately, in our culture, we do sort of somewhat see an overcorrection too, in the other direction, of saying, well, we're going to just be everything that's opposite of that. So some people have cried out that there's toxic masculinity. And so we've created an alternate form of masculinity that seems to be the opposite of that. And that's not healthy each either. And that's what the world tends to do is we create a pendulum.

We're going to see this and we're going to react to it and go to the opposite side. And that's going to be bad. And the next generation is going to react to that and go to the other side. Whereas actually usually the biblical vision of something, for example, the biblical vision of man is probably somewhere in between those two things. So God has given men, I think, a certain level of natural, how do I want to say it, strength, physically, mentally, emotionally, aggressiveness, maybe you could call it, because God has called men to provide and protect and to have that aspect to them. So there is that, but obviously that can become abused. Men can become aggressive to the point where they abuse women or children or others. So tons we could say about that. All right, so let's hit the next question.

So the next story that somebody brings up is a story about King Saul and the evil spirit that comes to him. So this is 1 Samuel chapter 16. Let me jump to the question. Here's what they say. They say, In my personal devotions,

I was reading 1 Samuel 16, and I read this, Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the Lord tormented him.

Or in other translations, it says evil spirit.

And then they go on to say, It just doesn't fit with anything else. I read about God. I think of God as only doing good. How could he send a harmful spirit to Saul to torment him?

I have had this question, and I think this is one of, to me, one of the scariest texts. I think this one and the text where Jesus can turn to somebody and say, depart from me, I never knew you. These two texts I think are really hard and are some of the maybe most scary Bible verses for me.

So I was really glad somebody asked this question because I want to talk about it.

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, I mean it strikes you as, I think if you're reading along the story in 1 Samuel, it strikes you as very strange that all of a sudden there's an evil spirit and it was sent by God to one of the characters. Yeah, because God chose Saul to be king out of the people. I mean, we see in some sense God chose Saul, right? Like it was evident from the beginning that this wasn't really God's choice or first choice. We see God saying, well, I'm going to give you what you want. You want a king like the other nations.

Well, here he is, here's Saul. And I think this was so interesting as well, because we really see that Saul was the first king in some ways. I mean, he's the king that all of God's people wanted. They said, we want a king like the other nations. And God says, OK, here's Saul. And so it seems like God gave Saul favor. And now all of a sudden he's taking that away. And instead of, you know, just taking something away, he's actually taking it a step further and giving him a spirit that's going to torment him. That's scary.

Hmm. Yeah, I get that. That, I mean, that is essentially what you just described is what's happening in the story. I mean, so Saul has, yeah, I mean, so the people's desire for a king wasn't good in the first place, right? So God was their king. God very clearly said that they're rejecting God as their king and Saul, you know, is given to them, but Saul has a chance to be a godly king. Saul fails at being a godly king and then actually right before this passage we read that God withdraws his spirit from Saul and right before that we read that God is beginning to send his spirit on David. Okay, so there's already the transition, we're reading something right in the middle of a transition that God has withdrawn his spirit from Saul, he's given his spirit to David, God has already decided he's going to put a new king in place, a different chosen person.

Can I ask a question about the Spirit? Yeah. So I have heard it said that in the Old Testament, God's Spirit is resting on one person in one time for a specific thing. Is that true? Because I've heard people say that about the Old Testament, and then in the New Testament, we receive the Holy Spirit as Christians, and so it's different now.

That's a great question. There's a lot we could say about that. I'll just say a little bit. It is different between the Old Testament and the New Testament, how this works. I think that's just part of the progressing of God's story and how He works. So in the Old Testament, what we see is God's Spirit enables them to do something for a certain period of time, that kind of thing.

Whereas in the New Testament, we've got this promise that the Spirit rests in us, on us, He's our guarantee, He's our seal of our inheritance to come, of our relationship with the Lord. Now I also want to say though that we know that, you know, the New Testament tells us that nobody has faith, nobody comes to faith, nobody receives salvation apart from the work of the Holy Spirit. So we can't say that the Holy Spirit was totally absent from the everyday believer's life in

the Old Testament. He was, because it's only through the power of the Spirit that somebody can be born again, that somebody can come to faith. So the Holy Spirit was doing that in the Old Testament, but we don't have passages telling us like we do in the New Testament, that he was resting on us sort of continually.

So when the text is saying that God is removing his spirit from him, that's not speaking to say that Saul is like somehow losing his salvation of some type?

Or do you think that is what it means?

No, I don't think. I would say Old Testament, New Testament, you can't lose your salvation. Saul's salvation is an interesting question. You know, did he ultimately have faith faith that resulted in righteousness in God and in God's promises. I don't know about Saul's eternal state and where that ended up. If he had repentance and received forgiveness for his sins and all those kinds of things, I can't speak to his eternal state, but I wouldn't say it.

I would say this is not a passage about salvation so much as about who God's anointed king is, who God's Spirit is uniquely working through to lead the people and be his representative to the people. That's really helpful. I think that helps me put distinct markers on what this is talking about. Sure, sure. So this evil spirit comes, which seems kind of crazy to us, but really this evil spirit is, that's how David gets into the story, right? This is how David, so later, Saul's buddies, his staff, say, hey Saul, we need to bring in an awesome harp player to help you out with this evil spirit. And that's how David gets into kind of the throne room, into the cadre of Saul's people.

Because this is almost like a hinge text between Saul disobeying the Lord because he was told to go and destroy this nation and all of their possessions. He doesn't. He disobeys the Lord. There's this hinge and then doesn't it immediately talk about David being brought in like you were saying the harp?

Yeah.

Okay.

And then after that, we've got the story of David Goliath. So this is the beginning of, you know, sort of David's ascension. So it's not the only passage we have in the Bible about evil spirits either so I jotted down a couple. So one is Acts 5, Ananias and Sapphira, so the Apostle Peter says that they've an evil spirit is at work in that whole situation. 2 Corinthians 12, Paul talks about his thorn in the flesh and he also calls it a messenger of Satan. I think of the book of Job of course where Satan is allowed to torment Job. So this isn't the only example we have in the Bible of an evil spirit coming from God or is the result of God's action or even allowed by God is another way to phrase it. But whether you say God sent it or God allowed it, I think the ultimate question here is, if God is good, how come he can either cause or let bad things happen to people? Whether it be an evil spirit or something else. I mean, to me, I think this is the same question as how can God be good and let hurricanes happen?

How can God be good unless somebody get cancer?

This is probably what a lot of the Old Testament people thought when they were part of the people of Israel and this evil nation would come in and conquer them. I think they probably would ask a very similar question.

Sure. So to try to, so that's a topic we've talked about in other episodes, we have to talk about in longer length. So in short, I think there's a few really important points we got to bear in mind. So the first is that God made the world perfect and we broke it with our sin. So yeah, you know whether whether you're talking about the hurricane or you're talking about cancer or you're talking about the sinful behavior of a person, God made the world perfect and good. We broke it with our sin.

I think you have to remember that fundamental piece in the story. Now we can talk about what's behind that, we can talk about God's design and plan, but I think we do have to remember just about that God is good and he made it good. Okay, the creation did originally reflect God's character of being perfect. Then it got broken. Sin came into it.

So, there's that. Another important point would be to just kind of remember that I think it's true that something can be against God's moral design and yet within his will. So for years, theologians have talked about that. They've talked about there's two wills of God. There's the moral will of God

and there's the sovereign will of God. So on the one hand, it's true that everything that happens is part of God's will, right? There's nothing that happens that's outside of God knowing it's gonna happen, God being in control of it happening, God is sovereign over all things. So in one sense, everything that happens is within his will. But on the other hand, we know that God's will is for certain things not to happen. Like God says, do not murder. So whenever somebody's murdered, on the one hand, it's within God's will because God knew it was gonna happen. God was in control of that happening. So on the one hand, it's within his will. But on the other hand, it's totally against his will. God doesn't want it to happen. God has said we're not supposed to do it. So you can kind of see that there's these two different aspects of God's moral will and design for the universe. And then there's also everything that happens, the fact that he is sovereignly in control of everything. Everything's within his will.

But again, kind of keep those two perspectives in your mind. And then kind of last step I'll say here is that God, we do know from the Bible that God uses temporal bad for ultimate good. So one great example is Joseph. Genesis 50 makes it really clear that Joseph says to his brothers, you meant this for evil. God meant it, designed it, intended it for good.

So God all along, it was God's plan all along that even though his brothers did this terrible thing, they sold him into slavery, he was falsely accused of something, he was in prison. Joseph had a rough life, and yet it was God's plan for that temporal bad to result in ultimate good. It's actually how the nation of Israel ultimately comes to be about. You know, the line of Jacob, the line of Joseph, that all would have ended in starvation if it hadn't been for Joseph

going ahead of them to be Pharaoh's right-hand man, to save up the food and to give it to his family eventually. I think if that idea sounds really interesting to you, the Peace Women's Conference this fall at Peace Church will actually be talking about that whole story, pairing it along with one of the Psalms. So if you're in the area, here's Shameless Plug. Check out this fall Peace Women's Conference.

You're really good at these Shameless Plugs. Absolutely. Hey! So I think that idea that I just shared is really, it can be really hard to swallow, and yet it's what the Bible tells us is true. So I think we've got to have the humility to accept that God's ways are higher than our ways, that he tells us that he's good, that he demonstrates that he's good, and that the temptation for us to think that he's not good is as old as Adam and Eve. I mean, that was the temptation to Adam and Eve in the garden was Satan went to them and said, you know, if God was good, why would he put this tree here? Why wouldn't he let you have all these good things that you want? You know, when in reality God had given them all the trees in the garden to eat of except for one, but Satan tries to reframe that and tempt them to think, man, God must not actually be good. God must not actually want good things for me because there's this thing that he says that I can't have. So this is the ultimate temptation is to think that God is not good, but he tells us that he is.

He demonstrates that he is, and I think there are some times in this life, there are some things that we witness in the world that we do have to trust Him. We have to trust that that is His character. That's what we see in the Bible. Even though our current moment, our situation, our experience might feel like that's not the case. Romans 8, 28 is one of the key verses, obviously, that reminds us of that.

For those who love God and are called according to His purpose, God works together all things for their good.

And I think listening to you talk to it's so often in my life where I feel something I feel that emotion and Emotions are good. They're a gift from the Lord, but we need to be careful to not root our beliefs in emotion But rather in truth And so I think just what you were saying of this may feel that God is not good But we know the Bible says God is good and so base You know what we're thinking on and what the Bible says rather than what we're feeling because we know we can be deceived

by our emotions.

Yeah, totally.

Well, I think that's all we've got time for today, but great questions, everybody. Thanks so much for them. Stephanie, thanks for being part of the conversation. Thanks for having me. Thanks, everybody, for listening. You can always send in more questions at peacechurch.cc/questions.

You can follow us on Instagram. You can follow us on resoundmedia.cc. Look forward to seeing you next time.

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