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Avoiding Confusion: Practice Putting It in Writing Leadership Nate Harney Executive Pastor Peace Church Published On: February 21, 2024 Put It in Writing We expect all staff to put things in writing when they are working with other staff members, board members, and volunteers in their ministry areas. We believe that simply telling people things verbally and not following up with a clear and written summary of what was said or decided can lead to confusion and uncertainty. However, when we communicate in writing, we offer maximum clarity and direction for ministry. This honors those we serve with, helps us clarify where we are going, and it honors Jesus because we lead with excellence and transparency. If we rely on only verbal communication and hope people will remember it, we risk missing crucial details and have no way of knowing what was really said. So, we commit to, “Put it in writing!” If we ever wonder, “Is this something I should put in writing?” and are on the fence about it… we will default to putting it in writing just to be sure. Values: Why is this so important and helpful? When things are in writing… We can remember what was communicated. Others have a clear record of what was said or agreed on. We stop unnecessary confusion and potential conflict. There are clear and recorded lines of responsibility. All parties get clarity and if one person has the wrong idea about what was communicated, this clears things up or invites the parties to talk and make sure they are tracking together. Once there is clarity, we put that in writing too. Costs: What can happen if we don’t do this? When things are not in writing… We think our communication was clear, but the other person (or the group) might have heard something entirely different. We simply forget what we said. The other person forgets what was said. Important details get forgotten (and every detail in a church context can impact a person who is loved by Jesus). Implementation: What can I do to get started? Be as brief as possible while communicating with precision and clarity. So don’t write a long message when you can simply send: “I look forward to meeting in my office next Tuesday at 1 pm.” Use the form of communication that is most common and comfortable for that person or group (Text message, e-mail, social media post…) Ask for a response. Suppose you chat with a committed ministry volunteer in the hallway after church, and they say they want to help with Kids Ministry at the 9:00 service next Sunday. You might follow up with a text: Thanks for your willingness to serve in the 3rd grade class this next Sunday at 9:00. I love your heart for kids. I’ll follow up with the details soon. Please send me a thumbs up if you are all good for Sunday. When someone you serve with (staff, board members, church volunteers, anyone) sends you a communication clarifying a meeting time, the commitment you made, or any ministry detail, always respond quickly and clearly. (Even a thumbs-up icon, a “Got it!” or “Thanks,” will work). Putting things in writing can seem unnecessary to some. Others might think that it is a waste of time. The truth is, that you will spend a lot more time and energy cleaning up the messes that come from unclear communication or assumptions made after a verbal conversation. Let’s all commit to using the simple tools of text messages, email, and other ways to put things in writing so we can serve Jesus and His Church in the most effective ways. More Blogs You'll Like How To Conduct Staff Reviews Read More How To Create A Church Budget Read More Four Steps to Manageable Sermon-Writing Read More

PODCAST That's a Good Question Chains of Time: Defining Biblical Slavery May 14, 2024 Jon Delger & Ryan DB Kimmel Listen to this Episode So Hey everyone, welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church and a part of Resound Media. You can find more great content for the Christian life and church leaders at resoundmedia.cc . That's a Good Question is a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm John, I serve as a pastor as well as part of this show. You can always submit questions to peacechurch.cc /questions. Today, I'm here with Lead Pastor of Peace Church, Pastor Ryan Kimmel. Hello, everyone. I'm also here with Pastor Mitch, our producer. Hey. And today, we're going to address the controversial topic of what does the Bible say about slavery? Yep. All right, here's our listener question. During your Philemon series, you said that the Bible does not support slavery. How can you reconcile that with other passages that instruct people how to treat their slaves or even be slaves like Ephesians 6, 5-9, Colossians 3, 22, Titus 2, verse 9, 1 Peter 2, 18. It seems like the Bible is promoting and teaching slavery. So isn't this an example of not being inspired and not the true holy word of God? I'm eager to hear how you respond to this because this seems like a clear example of the Bible being outdated. So, not just what does the Bible say about slavery but does this mean that the Bible itself is outdated, can't speak to today. Yeah. Isn't from God. Mm hmm. Lots on the line. So, I'm gonna respond firstly by saying that I think we're gonna talk about this question but I want whoever asked that question to know that as you respond, I'm not necessarily responding specifically to that person or I'm not gonna make assumptions or judgments about their faith, doesn't say if they're a Christian or not, they clearly were familiar with our church to the extent that they knew that we preached through the Book of Philemon and that I addressed slavery to that extent. So if you did submit that question, thank you for submitting that question, but please know that we're not, we're gonna answer just biblically with no preconceived notions or judgments upon where the motivation behind that question. I like the Gospel Coalition did an article on this and I like how they framed it. They said something to the effect of biblical instruction doesn't necessarily mean approval. That there's things that the Bible will instruct but doesn't necessarily approve or even to an extent like encourage. I think divorce is an example of that. I think the overarching thrust of the New Testament is that married people should stay married through thick and thin, if you got married in the name of Christ. And although it does provide some instruction for divorce, at times, it gives instruction for it. Instructions on kind of parameters around it without giving a mandated approval of it. And I think when it comes to slavery, there's a lot of parallels to that. Now, one thing that you absolutely must underscore whenever we talk about slavery in the biblical sense is we have to make very clear distinctions between the slavery that the Bible talks about in both the Old and New Testament and what we here in America experience in the 18th, the 17th and 1800s, because it's different. And it's important to make those distinctions. And I know people don't want to make those distinctions. They just want to say slavery is slavery. And I'd say that's a dishonor to those who suffered through the American version of slavery, which I think was uniquely horrendous and demonic. So why is it important to make that distinction? Because it's two different sets of bondage, you could say. Yeah. And that's why even the New Testament, you'll see a lot of the translators will go at great lengths to talk about the agony of translating the biblical words into slavery, knowing the cultural weight that that word carries for Americans and how it taints our understanding of what the Bible instructs and teaches and describes. Yeah, to that point, here's a, I want to just read a quick section. This is actually, so the ESV Bible, the English Standard Version of the Bible, that's the one that we use at Peace Church. Plenty of good translations, but that's the one that we use. And in their preface, they actually address this particular issue, just with, they're talking about their translation in general, but they give the example of talking about slavery and how that's just kind of a hard topic. So they say, a particular difficulty is presented when words in Biblical Hebrew and Greek refer to ancient practices and institutions that do not correspond directly to those in the modern world. Such is the case in the translation of ebed in Hebrew and doulos in Greek, terms which are often rendered slave. These terms, however, actually cover a range of relationships that require a range of renderings, either slave, bond servant, or servant, depending on the context. And then they go on to explain what you're saying, which is that there is a difference between when the Bible uses that word, doulos or ebbed, Old Testament and New Testament, versus, yeah, what we saw in the United States of America in the 1700s and 1800s. Yeah. The other thing that's important to note is not just the slavery, the form of slavery, but the cultural and societal context in which that institution played out. The American, you know, the American landscape of the 1700s and 1800s and how that society was functioning and with that new government, drastically different than what we see under the Romans or under the theocracy of the Old Testament. And how life played out in those contexts were radically different, which is important for when we understand why the Bible teaches what it does in regards to slavery. And so one thing I did appreciate about the question that was asked is that they stuck with New Testament. If you noticed, the question that they asked, they referenced a bunch of verses, but they simply stuck to New Testament. They didn't go to the Exodus 21s and those sort of instructions that we see from the Old Testament. I was going to say, actually, yeah, if you go to Exodus 21, the first 11 verses, I think to modern ears, that's going to be even, that's going to be far more shocking than the stuff you're going to read in the New Testament. Yeah, so it's surprising to me that they didn't go there because I think, I think this person who asked that, they're thinking and they understand, they understand the notion of progressive revelation. And so they stuck with some of the New Testament passages. And so to say, how do we, well, I can't remember exactly how it was phrased. The Bible supports it? I think it was said, how can we say the Bible supports it? And doesn't that prove that the Bible or show that the Bible is outdated? Yeah, it says, how can you reconcile that with other passages that instruct people how to treat their slaves? Yeah. Yeah, it seems like the Bible is promoting and teaching slavery. Yeah, so I would say it's not promoting it. I'm saying it's giving parameters for how Christians are supposed to operate in a society where that is part of the air they breathe. And one thing I said in the Philemon series is for the ancient world, a society that didn't include slavery was almost impossible for them to conceive. And probably something they didn't even attempt to conceive. I put it, I said it's similar to the Ark Society. We can't imagine a society that doesn't have money or a society that doesn't operate or an economy that doesn't operate based on the dollar. So we just have to learn to live with it and we try to make the best of it, even though some of the dangers that come with it. Same goes with slavery. They, that was the society that they were in. And so how do Christians live as good stewards and is the light in those in those environments and if you notice so those are they quoted everything that Paul wrote except for one of the Peter, the one that Peter wrote and I believe Mitch, you can probably check this later. I believe the Peter passage doesn't that's not the do loss isn't the word. Yeah. It's simply servant, which can I think it can mean anything. I think it can be a lot of different things. But when you look at the letters that Paul wrote, when he wrote it to the church, Ephesians and Colossians, that was to a church and those sections on bond servants or slaves is connected to the household instructions. So these were people seen as part of the household. And so as you had due losses, as you had slaves or bond servants in your home, how did you treat them? The instruction is given alongside how husbands and wives are supposed to treat each other and how kids are supposed to operate. So there are, right, there's a notion there that this is part of the family, this is part of the household, and so we're gonna treat them with honor and respect. And then the other ones are Titus and Timothy, was it? Yeah. So Paul's writing to pastors in that one, or church planters. And so he's helping these young, younger pastors, church planters to know how to teach about this part of life. And so again, I think when you see instructions on bond servants or slaves, the American mind, which is very understandably so, but very skewed because of the slavery of our own cultural and history in our country. It's very easy to understand why people come with such a visceral reaction, and the only thing they want to hear is that it's condemned, and that it's bad, and that it's evil. The notion that the Bible would try to describe how to operate in the midst of slavery in that society, we can't get our heads around that because of the scars of our nation's history. And so, yeah, go ahead. If you don't mind, so real quick, just to tie off kind of that loop. So let's talk about the ways that it was different. The ways that slavery in the Bible times was different. Here's one way. These people were stolen and sold into slavery. That's what I was gonna start with. So here's Exodus 21, 16. So the Bible says, whoever steals a man and sells him and anyone found in possession of him shall be put to death. So the Bible is talking about a world where slavery exists, and even in that world, it says that to steal somebody and put them into slavery, that that was punishable by death. So, let's talk about the ways that people did get into slavery in Bible times. Yeah. You wanna just highlight a couple of those ways? Yeah, I think a typical way was that, if you look at the population of people during the first century, a vast majority of these people are are either poor or, you know, are slaves. Right. And so they the huge contingent of the population. Yeah. Right. So the only options for them were to be day wage laborers, which they were people who ended up getting paid nothing. They couldn't really function. You went into the army if you were a man, or you could become a slave. So you could live in someone's house, you could work for them and work off the debt of living under their house. People voluntarily give themselves to slavery? This was a safe alternative to some of the more horrific avenues that you could go down. It was a form of that in the ancient world. Because they didn't have a government that where you paid taxes and they were gonna give it back to you when you retire to take care of you. There was no social welfare programs like that. This was, and the same goes back for the Old Testament. The same thing, I mean, they didn't have an overarching government that would care for its people. The community had to learn to care for one another. And so people would give themselves in forms of slavery or servitude, servanthood. Yeah, I almost think about like people who have like live-in nannies or like, yeah, yeah, like, you know, obviously it's not as nice and neat and simple as an analogy, but you think about these people who say, OK, you know, I want to have a safe place to live. I want to work. And you end up living in with a family. You know, it's not as like, it probably wasn't as nice as we're making it sound. I mean, there are definitely drawbacks of living in this kind of way. But- Well, even John was, you know, reciting about you can't steal a person and sell them into slavery. That's Old Testament, that's New Testament. The entire enterprise of the American slavery was diametrically opposed to biblical teaching. Yeah. Right, I read one article today that said that, you know, what's been called the transatlantic slave trade, yeah, it was the 1700s, 1800s, that that was unique even in the history of slavery in general in the world, that typically, and the person writing the article had done some research into the history of slavery, that for most of the history of slavery, people were enslaving other people nearby to them, people of the same people group as them. And like you guys outlined, it happened in different ways through, people had to pay off a debt in some way, or had to, one of the examples actually that I read about was parents, they weren't able to afford to take care of their children. So they actually sold their children into slavery, which sounds absolutely horrible. And I'm sure it wasn't great. But I talked about actually that that was a way that they tried to give them a better life. Put them in the hands of somebody else. We see still forms of that through open adoption. When a mother is carrying a child and doesn't believe that she can provide for that child, so she offers that child up for adoption. That's how that forms, that's how it plays out today. And exactly, it was a form of making sure that your child was going to be able to be cared for. It sounds atrocious to us modern, western, enlightened minds, but when you think about the cultural context of society that they grew up in, they had no other, they had no better options. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It was also not uncommon for a slave to own another slave. Like we're looking at fundamentally different types of slavery. And that's why it's hard to translate due laws into slave. Dave carries such cultural weight and scars for the American mind. And so that's why it's important to go back to the context and look at this. But here's just the reality, and John, I know you're probably going to agree with this. If you want to hate the Bible, you can find reasons to hate the Bible. And us coming and trying, and not just trying to, but rightly explaining this, we're not even defending, we're just explaining what the Bible is saying in some of the cultural context, I understand a large contingent of our culture has no tolerance for that. All they want to hear is slavery is bad all the time and if the Bible doesn't say that then the Bible is outdated. You know, if you want to take that shallow of a view, then you're kind of doing the opposite, not the opposite, you're kind of doing a parallel thing that the transatlantic slave traders did. They took a very shallow reading of scripture and used it to support a misapplication of biblical teaching, because I'm sure many from the transatlantic slave trade era would say, hey, the Bible outlines how to treat slaves, so hey, the Bible condones it. What you're seeing today is kind of like the inverse of that, or the opposite of that, parallel to that. If you want to take a very shallow reading of scripture and not try to understand the context from which it was spoken and the eternal truths that it dwells from, then you're always going to hate the Bible anyway. And so that's why it's important for a topic like this, because of the cultural scars we carry, to understand what the Bible is actually saying, because the message is good. We can't impose our worldview onto the text. That always ends up poorly. We have to allow the text to change and rejuvenate our worldview and, you know, work it through that way. And also, I think it helps us to remind us that when we read the thrust of the Bible, and we see it clearly more articulated, I think, as revelations progressively revealed, the goal and focus of our lives is to glorify God wherever we are and to seek to make disciples. That's the number one prerogative for all Christians. Glorify God wherever you are, whatever stage of life you are, and go and seek and make disciples. And whether that means you have a terribly crappy job and your boss treats you like crap, love him, serve well. And then I think that then also what you see then is from the New Testament times in the context of bond servant hood or slavery as we call it, or as it's often translated. Your goal isn't necessarily to go and improve your life, to go and make millions of dollars and now own other slaves. It's whatever context you were in, serve the Lord with all your heart, honor and love those around you, and lift up the name of Jesus. So how would you talk about the way that the New Testament looks at slavery in terms of like the identity of a slave versus how maybe chattel slavery would view and describe the identity of a slave. We'll be right back after this break. Hi, I'm Elizabeth, one of the co-hosts of Mom Guilt, a podcast with new episodes every Monday. Mom Guilt is a podcast about the daily struggles of motherhood. Stephanie and I share real experiences of Mom Guilt and how we have found freedom from that guilt through the gospel. Listen to us on Resoundmedia.cc or wherever you find podcasts. Yeah, chattel slavery treats human beings as property. Yeah. I think that's one of the, one of the just the clear defining factors of what chattel slavery is, is it treats human beings as property. Whereas I think in scripture, We're also just clarified that you're, you, like the slave is owed nothing by the master. Yeah, sure. Versus New Testament and Old Testament. And there's a lot of prerogatives that the master has upon the slave to care for and provide and take care. You don't see that. You don't see that obligation in child slavery. Right? Yeah, the Bible treats the slave as a person, as still a human being made in God's image. They're in a tough situation, but they're a human being made in God's image. They have rights, they have value. In the New Testament, they can be, actually in Philemon's story, for example, they can be seen as a Christian brother or sister. Not as a piece of property. And I think you kind of alluded to this, Ryan, but even in, so in the Old Testament, actually, there's stipulations on the length of servitude for somebody, so here's, I'm just, I've got a long list of references here. I'm just pulling these out as we go. So this is Deuteronomy 15. It says, if your brother, a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, is sold to you, he shall serve you for six years. And in the seventh year, you shall let him go free. And, here, let me keep reading. And when you let him go free, you shall not let him go empty-handed. You shall furnish him liberally out of your flock, out of your threshing floor, and out of your winepress. So it says, if you're gonna have slaves, you can only have them for six years, and when you let them go free, you've got to give them some of your stuff. And it even provides parameters if the slave wants to stay. And I'm not going to do a great exposition on Exodus 21, but the notion here, it just further amplifies the difference between the slavery in the context of biblical times versus our slavery in our history. I know we talked about this before the podcast started, I don't know if we said it within the podcast, but the slavery for the New Testament and Old Testament was not race-based. Yeah. Correct. Did we say that in this podcast? I don't think we said that. Just to also clarify, that's another reason I think that it was especially grievous, is that the American slavery, was it just enslave people simply on the basis of the color of their skin. Yeah. Totally contrary to God's design and God's view of human beings. They're made in God's image regardless of... But also, again, I just want to underscore that the notion that if people want to hate the Bible, if people want to use this as a reason to discredit the Bible, they're going to do it. But for those who actually have an open heart and mind to understand what the Bible's true message is, why this book consistently is the greatest bestseller every single year and will be for all time, is because the message is actually good. And if we're going to be patient enough with an open heart and mind to actually understand what the Bible is trying to say, it's the most beautiful piece of literature, the most beautiful words that were ever written. And yeah, this is hard. This is hard stuff. And I'm not going to say that it's not. But if we take some time and patience to understand the message, the message is ultimately good and it's better than what you can imagine. And again, like I have to constantly stress whenever I do come across this conversation with people, when I say slave, I'm making a clear distinction, in my mind at least, for what the Bible's talking about and what our American experience has been. Yeah, right. And that's what some translations use the phrase bond servant. Yeah, and I get how people are like, oh, you're just trying to change the words of the Bible. It's like, well, no, we're trying to choose words that are accurate in meaning and that you understand. Yeah, represent. Yeah, I think going back to what you said, I think we are asking the wrong question sometimes saying, is this what the Bible says? And therefore the Bible isn't true. I think sometimes, yeah, I think that's the wrong question. I think the question we need to ask is, is Jesus Lord, right? Because if we believe that Jesus is who he says he is, that he died to pay for the sins that we could never pay for, he lived the perfect life that we could never live, if that's the truth, then it doesn't really matter what stipulations the Bible puts on us, right? If the Bible then says you have to hop around the rest of your life on one foot, right? That's not just, but it's, you know, it's Jesus is Lord. There was a Francis Chan analogy once, wasn't it? Didn't he say, if the Bible said that all—he's an Asian man— he said, if the Bible said that all Asian men must walk around on their hands for all their lives, then that's what I want to do. Yeah, he's just making the point that, obviously, the Bible doesn't say that and isn't going to say something crazy because God is a God of logic and, you know, His rules make sense. But the point is that, yeah, Jesus is Lord, God is in control. So if we start with the assumption that, hey, God is the creator, he's the king, he's the one in charge, his word is simply what we're gonna do. Yeah. I once heard someone say something to the effect of that, the Christian message is acid upon the institution of slavery, that it will eventually slowly degrade it, erode it, into kill it. Slavery actually can't exist permanently in the Christian context, because there won't be that in heaven. And so that's why you see, as Christianity continues to take hold over the world, you see that, it should, you see the slavery decrease, which is why all the abolitionists, the champions of that movement were Christians. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, it is it can be confusing because the Bible isn't super clear right but and even at times Jesus talks about our our state with him being like slaves to him being owned by him, which isn't isn't a again a champion of of chattel slavery, but it is a identity marker of like well, who do you belong to? That would have been a really easy thing for people to understand. Well, it's like this, do you own your children? You know, like that sort of like notion, like I don't think we're comfortable using that language, but they have to do what I say, I take care of them. They don't provide me an income, you know, like they're wholly dependent on me. I'm wholly responsible to provide for them. There's that similar to like, are we meant to be slaves of righteousness? Yes, are we God's children? Yes, those things are the same I think it's the idea of you know who are you a slave to your sin or to God right and right the idea of like? Who do you want to be owned by like? You're gonna have a master right? You can't serve two of them, correct? And you know the back to Philemon Paul wrote Philemon. Yeah about about Onesimus, who was a runaway slave who was owned by Philemon. Onesimus runs away from Philemon, comes to Christ under Paul's ministry. Paul sends him back to the master he ran away from with this letter, saying, welcome this guy back as a brother, not as a slave. Yeah, so it's an important topic, I think, for Christians to be aware of in today's world. These kind of conversations are coming up, I think, more and more as we talk about some of the issues in the United States of America about race and even reparations and all those kind of conversations. So I think it's important for Christians to understand what the Bible does say about slavery and how Christians should think about it. And I think, hopefully, you've gathered some important principles. Number one being that there is a huge difference between the ancient Middle Eastern, the biblical history context of slavery versus what we saw in the 1700s and 1800s on slavery. Yeah, it's kind of like polygamy, right? The Bible doesn't necessarily come down against polygamy. It's not part of the created order. Correct, but you read the Bible and you understand that what the Bible's message is saying is saying you can't be doing this right same with slavery. You can't we can't be doing this All descriptions and stories of polygamy in the Bible are just atrocious right it never paints it in a positive light. Yeah Again, I just again like I just want to recap and just say like if you want to use this as a reason to hate the Bible and You can do that as long as you don't think deeply or investigate truly The message of the Bible in the context from which it was written. But for those who want to have an open heart and mind, I think you'll come to see that what the Bible says about this is actually pretty amazing. Hard, definitely hard, especially for us Western enlightened Americans. It's a hard teaching, but if we look at the truth of the scripture and the beauty of the Christian message, it's one we should all embrace. Amen. Awesome. Well, thanks guys for the great conversation. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for sending in the question. You can always send in more questions at peacechurch.cc /questions. You can listen to That's a Good Question wherever you find podcasts.

What is 'Probably' Missing From Most Nativity Sets Theology Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Published On: December 20, 2024 It’s routine every year at Christmastime – you set out the Nativity set and check to see if anything is missing: Mary - check. Joseph - check. Multi-Ethnic Wisemen - check. Shepherd(s) - check. Sheep, camel - check. Angel - check. Baby Jesus - check. Little Drummer Boy - ummm, not part of the biblical story, but sure - check. If your nativity set is anything like mine, you likely have all those familiar pieces (well, except for the little drummer boy). The infamous Nativity Scene, though common in Christian households during Christmastime, is not actually Biblical — at least not in the sense that all those well-known characters were present at the same time, surrounding and adoring Baby Jesus. While all the characters represent true Biblical accounts of the birth and early childhood of Christ, the Nativity Scene as it is typically displayed never actually happened. It's a conglomeration of various stories brought together into a festive decoration. What's Missing? What is often missing from many nativity scenes, however, is something truly powerful, yet perplexing: the star. The infamous Star of Bethlehem, mentioned only in Matthew chapter 2, which guided the wisemen to the newborn king. Too many nativity scenes fail to display this remarkable element of the birth narrative. Does yours have one? But what actually was the so-called "Star of Bethlehem"? There are really three possibilities: It was supernatural. Meaning, this event was something miraculous and spiritual, and therefore unknowable and unrepeatable, something to be appreciated as a true once-in-the-moment miracle that helped to announce the birth of Jesus Christ. It was superstition. Meaning, it wasn't something out of astronomy, but rather astrology; that the wisemen followed a normal astrological occurrence in the night sky that they interpreted as symbolic due to their spiritualism or pagan faith. This understanding of the Star of Bethlehem means there was no unique event in the cosmos, but it also means that it doesn't assert something about the star that contradicts cosmological history. It was scientific. Meaning, it was a true (even if isolated or rare) event or object in the universe which was observable to the human eye. While a miracle is a wondrous explanation, I have to admit, the pursuit of a scientific explanation intrigues me...and there may be some validity to it. But before we begin to discover what the star was, let's first remind ourselves of the story of the star. Matthew 2:1-2, 9-11 ESV (1) Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, (2) saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” (9) After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. (10) When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. (11) And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. For such a famous part of the Christmas story, there is surprisingly little about the star in the biblical account, but that is not to say there isn’t great insight to be mined from this passage. Miracle, Myth, Meteor? Identifying What "The Star" Truly Was The first thing we must consider is if this event was a tried-and-true miracle. As noted, if this was a supernatural event, then we are content to leave it as just that: A powerful miracle of God, unknowable and unrepeatable; undocumented with any other credibility outside the Bible and something to be celebrated and revered as a momentary act of God, leading men from outside Judea to come and worship the newborn King, that they may be the first global missionaries to take the news of Christ’s birth outside of Judea. If this is the true explanation, I am joyful to celebrate it at Christmas as just that, by enjoying the wonder of such a beautiful miracle. But – what if it wasn’t that? What if it was something more… natural? Clues In The Context When it comes to identifying this " star " as something in the universe observable in the ancient middle east night sky, we must take note of the clues given in the text: Clue 1: It rose in the east. When the wisemen say they saw " his star when it rose " (verse 2), how it is stated in the original text is " we saw his star in the east ." This denotes a morning star, an important note if we want to trace and find the origins of this occurrence in the records of history. Clue 2: It appears over numerous nights. Verse 9 continues, “After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them…” The star that they had seen and had led them to Judea, appears again after their court with King Herod. Meaning, the star was seen over multiple nights. Clue 3: It appears to move unlike other celestial bodies. Another clue is that there also appears to be motion associated with the star. As verse 9 states in the biblical narrative record, the star " went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was .” Clue 4: The timeframe of the star must be near the birth or very early childhood of Christ. It’s important to narrow down the timeframe of Christ’s birth if we are to look to astronomical records to determine the identity of the star. The accepted timeframe of the birth of Christ is dated using three important markers from the Bible and history: The death of King Herod is said to have happened in 4 B.C. The Roman census (ordered by Caesar Augustus in relation to the time of Quirinius serving as Governor of Syria, Luke 2:1-2) is believed to have taken place in roughly 6 B.C. Dating the life of Christ based on the start of his ministry, and his death during Passover. Luke 3 records that Jesus was “about 30 years of age” ( Luke 3:23 ) when he started his ministry - and earlier Luke records this start is near or shortly after the time of the start of John the Baptist’s ministry which was in the “fifteenth year of Caesar Tiberius” ( Luke 3:1 ) which is dated to be 29 A.D. Using these markers, the accepted timeframe for the Birth of Christ is between 6 B.C. and 2 B.C. The reason Jesus’ birth doesn’t line up perfectly with the B.C. and A.D. distinction is based on the miscalculation of the year of his birth by monk Dionysius Exiguus who lived between the fifth and sixth centuries A.D., and who came up with the B.C./A.D. separation of the calendar we now use the world over. Clue 5: The wiseman themselves! Knowing the wisemen were from the East, and were given the biblical term of magi ( μάγος , wise men, magician; related to the Old Persian " magush ," referring to a member of a priestly caste), this leads us to believe with little doubt the wisemen were Zoroastrians from Persia; a people who were obsessed with studying the stars of the sky, both in terms of the myth of astrology, and its deep connection with the scientific study of astronomy. Given these clues, is it possible to posit and even determine in actuality what the star was? Again, if it was truly a miracle, then it should be left and celebrated as that for there is nothing else to be known, but given that we have some important clues in our text that could lead us to believe it was something else, let's investigate the two remaining alternatives: Astrology or Astronomy. Astrology: Pagan, But Perhaps Right This Time? While this is the least likely option, it is plausible. This theory is that the Star of Bethlehem was a routine star (or planet) in the night sky and that astrology (the myths and superstitions) of the wisemen led them to believe during that time that it was symbolic of something special happening in Jerusalem. There is no way to validate this, but to take this approach means that God allowed their astrology to be “right” in the sense that their interpretation of the sky led them to the true birth of the King. Again, if this is the true interpretation, it makes it nearly impossible to know what “star” they were referring to. If the answer is that God, in His providence, did allow the pagan belief of astrology to lead the wisemen to the newborn King using the guidance of a routine occurrence in the night sky, then again, we give praise and thanks to God for adding this detail in the Scripture. But again, details given in the text seemingly point to something more than that. Admitting this, we turn to the science of astronomy to see if an answer lies there. Astronomy: Searching The Historical Night Sky By the astronomical records of the ancients and by retracing the paths of stars and planets using modern science, we can know a lot about the events of the observable universe in the distant past. Because of this, there are things we can rule out and things we can seriously consider. For instance, we know Halley's Comet was visible on Earth in 12 B.C. , but there are a number of reasons to rule this out as "the Star of Bethlehem": 12 B.C. is outside the accepted timeframe of Christ's birth. The path of Halley's Comet in the sky does not line up with the details listed in the biblical account. The same can be said for other occurrences such as meteors (shooting stars). Comets were seen as bad omens in the world of antiquity, ruling out all comets. We can also rule out novas and supernovas, not only because during this time there are no historical records giving confirmation of this, but primarily because the "path" the wisemen would have taken does not line up with the movement of how the glow of a supernova would have behaved in the sky. (Side note: Chinese astronomers do record a nova-event in 185 B.C. ) The Stars Align With ruling out comets, meteors, and supernovas, there is another option: The aligning of stars, or more technically: the conjunction of planets and stars . What does astronomy say about this option? Quite a lot, actually! It's important to note that the wisemen did not visit Jesus on the very night of his birth, but rather they visited him sometime after, maybe even months or years; the Scriptures say, “ And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother ( Matthew 2:11 ). Note, the word used was “child” ( παιδίον; child, little one ), rather than “baby” ( βρέφος; infant, child in arms ). So, as we consider the timeframe of Christ’s birth and/or His very early life, there were three key planetary alignments that would have been a unique sight in the night sky, which all happened within this timeframe: On June 17, 2 B.C. there was a conjunction of Jupiter, Venus, and Regulus (a star in the constellation Leo). On August 12, 3 B.C. there was a conjunction of Jupiter and Venus visible in the early dawn sky. On April 17, 6 B.C. there was a conjunction of Jupiter, Saturn, the vernal equinox, the sun, and the moon within the constellation Aries. The favored of these three is the last one (an event so rare that it won't happen again until 16,213 A.D., minus the vernal equinox). This event is also purported to be commemorated on a Roman coin minted in Antioch ! The further significance of these events is found in the retrograde motion of their path in the night sky, which line up nicely with the Biblical narrative because this retrograde motion is not normally the path taken by planets visible in the sky. The rising in the east and following it until it came to rest over where the child was is a critical detail for determining if this was an astronomical event. Faith In The Story In truth, we may not know with exact specificity which of these events it was, if any of them, but what we see from the Biblical narrative, historical records, and astronomical archives is the undeniable plausibility of the Star of Bethlehem being a true historical and astronomical event! For me, this is as exciting as if it was a miracle of heaven. For the Star of Bethlehem to have been a true event in the cosmos, we must realize that this would have required God to orchestrate the stars, planets and constellations to follow a very specific and timed path since the creation of the universe, so that they would align in accordance with the birth and early life of Jesus Christ! How truly amazing it is to consider the scope of this! Putting The Star Back In The Nativity Whatever the star was, it was something truly amazing that God ordained to have happened – and so may that deepen your belief in the goodness, power, and sovereignty of God! May this short analysis and investigation of the Star of Bethlehem inspire you not only to include the star in your nativity set, but may it also deepen your faith in Him who is the focus of your nativity scene: Jesus Christ, the newborn King and the Son of God, whose birth was heralded by angels, worshiped by wise men, and adorned by the celestial. References and Resources: www.britannica.com Magus | Zoroastrianism, Priests, Rituals | Britannica Magus, member of an ancient Persian clan specializing in cultic activities. The name is the Latinized form of magoi (e.g., in Herodotus 1:101), the ancient Greek transliteration of the Iranian original. From it the word magic is derived. It is disputed whether the magi were from the beginning www.space.com What was the Star of Bethlehem? The Star of Bethlehem probably wasn't a star. www.nd.edu Royal Beauty Bright Grant Mathews, director of the Center for Astrophysics at Notre Dame, uses his expertise to identify the star of Bethlehem that the Bible says announced the birth of Jesus www.britannica.com List of comets | Comets, Astronomy, Space | Britannica Comets are a class of small celestial objects orbiting the Sun and developing diffuse gaseous envelopes and often long luminous tails when near the Sun. The comet makes a transient appearance in the sky and is often said to have a “hairy” tail. The word comes from the Greek komētēs, meaning “hairy www.britannica.com Herod | Biography, Facts, Reign, Temple, & Jesus | Britannica Herod, Roman-appointed king of Judea (37-4 BCE), who built many fortresses, aqueducts, theaters, and other public buildings but who was the center of political and family intrigues in his later years. The New Testament portrays him as a tyrant, into whose kingdom Jesus of Nazareth was born. www.nasa.gov Oldest Recorded Supernova - NASA This image combines data from four space telescopes to create a multi-wavelength view of all that remains of RCW 86, the oldest documented example of a supernova. www.history.com A Brief History of Halley’s Comet | HISTORY The famous comet named for astronomer Edmond Halley only passes by the Earth roughly once every 76 years, but it’s appearances have often played a surprising role in historical events. tyndalehouse.com Was Luke wrong about the census of Quirinius? David Armitage explores the widely debated issue of how we reconcile Luke's account of Jesus' birth with other historical writing that seems to contradict it. www.patternsofevidence.com Warnings in the Sky: Anniversary of the Star | Patterns of Evidence On this day in 2 BC, a rare planetary conjunction took place which may relate to Matthew's account of the Magi coming to Jesus in Bethlehem. www.smithsonianmag.com What Was the Star of Bethlehem? Who better to ask than the Vatican? www.coinworld.com 12 Days of Christmas: Ancient coin shows Star of Bethlehem www.biblicalarchaeology.org When Was Jesus Born—B.C. or A.D.? New Testament scholars place Jesus’ birth in 4 B.C. or before. This begs the question: How could Jesus have been born in B.C.—“before Christ”? www.biblestudytools.com Why Was There a Roman Census at Jesus' Birth in the Bible? Luke 2:1 is the traditional starting point for the Christmas story of Jesus' birth: “In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.” So how did a Roman census lead to the fulfillment of prophecy and one of the most beloved stories of all time? That’s what we’re here to explore. More Blogs You'll Like Do the Resurrection Accounts Contradict? How differences in the Gospel accounts strengthen rather than undermine the credibility of the resurrection Read More What is 'Probably' Missing From Most Nativity Sets Miracle, Myth, or Meteor? Identifying What the ‘Star of Bethlehem’ Truly Was Read More Is The Bible Really Without Error? A Closer Look at Scripture’s Reliability, Inerrancy, and Historical Trustworthiness Read More

The Fight Is Now Sermon Series: Contender Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: Jude 1-4 Transcript Today is the day that the Lord has made. So let us rejoice and be glad in it. And everyone said with all of our hearts, amen and amen. So we're here, we're gathering as a church. And I know not everyone is, but many of us are Christians. And that means we're part of what God is doing in this world, or at least we're meant to. And I'll tell you this, Christianity is trying to do something remarkable in this world. Not only are we trying to convince the world that there's a God in heaven, but that he also loves us and wants to save us from our sins. And we're trying to do this for a world that loves darkness over light, a world that loves their pride more than righteousness, a world that in their hearts have already rejected a God that they don't even know. Or to put it another way, what we're trying to do is we're trying to unify the world around the kingship of Jesus Christ who was risen from the dead after he died for our sins on the cross. That's why we gather, that's why we come together to worship and be built up so that we can go out and do this. Now, as you can imagine, the problems facing the task for the church are actually quite immense. On the one hand, we have our very own flesh that works against us, that works against God's plan in us. We have the ways of the world, just the rhythm of the world that's opposed to the things of God. Add to this, we also have a very real enemy in the demonic forces. Because I don't know if you know this, but the world is not just stuff. There is more than what you can just see with your eyes. There is a good thing happening in this world, and there is a spiritual evil happening in this world. And we have all three of those things working against the mission of the church. But yet we are still called to contend for the faith, even as opposition arises. Amen? Amen. But I'll tell you this, of all the problems that Christianity and the church face in our global mission, some of the worst problems come from within. And I think Jesus knew this was going to happen. That's why in his final prayer, right before he went to the cross, do you know what the main thesis of his final prayer was, was for unity among his believers. It was for unity among the church that we'd be one in both his love and his truth. But ever since the earliest days of Christianity, people have been twisting the faith into something that was not meant to be, something they wanted to be, rather than what Christ intended it to be. And the book of Jude confronts this head on. So would you go ahead and turn to the book of Jude, I'll give you a clue. It's the second to the last book of the Bible. Go ahead and turn to Jude. If you want to use the Bibles we provided, that's on page 1308, because as we are called to contend, what Jude is going to remind us of today is this, that the fight is now. It's not later, it's not after you graduate high school, it's not when you're older, it's not when your kids are out of the house, the fight is now. 1308 is the page if you want to use the Bibles we provided. As we are going to see today, Jude's call to contend for the faith. Now we'll talk about the man Jude in just a moment, but this is a letter that he wrote. We don't know the exact context, but it seems to be an open letter to all Christians, maybe a little special emphasis on Hebrew Christians, Jewish people who had come to faith in Jesus, but either way, Jude writes to give us some important principles about what it means to fight, or the word he uses, contend, to contend for the faith, even as opposition arises, and even as we face some of that from within our own ranks. Now, if you're there, you probably noticed that Jude is a short letter. There's no chapters, there's only verses. And today we're going to look at verses one to four. So hopefully you are there now. With that, I would ask that if you are able, would you please stand for the reading of God's word? Would you hear the word of the Lord, the letter of Jude, verses one to four. Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ, may mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you. Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people who pervert the grace of our God, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Amen. This is God's Word. Remain standing. Let's pray. We'll continue. Let's pray. Father of glory, we ask on this day that you would help us to know your word more fully, that we might fight the right fight, the one that's right before us, that we'd contend for the faith. So please, would you send the Holy Spirit to continue to lead and guide us here and now, for it's in Jesus' name that we pray these things. And everyone said, amen, amen. Go ahead and have a seat. All right, I have to ask, when we talk about Jude, who immediately thought of the Beatles song, Hey Jude? Let me see. I just wanted to see who's old in the house. Some of the Gen Zers are like, what are the Beatles? So as we kick off this series, let me give you one main thought to get us through this passage here today, and it's this. That we are to contend for the faith because the fight is now. The fight is now. I'm no longer a youth pastor, but in my days when I was a youth pastor, you'd be surprised, or maybe you wouldn't be surprised, how many teenagers said they loved Jesus, but they also said they'd get serious about their faith later. I'm here to tell you then then with all due respect you don't love Jesus. You love the idea of Jesus but if Jesus is somebody that you say you know and you also get at the same time put off till later then you don't know Jesus. We are called to contend because the fight is now. Let me say it again for those in the back. We contend for the faith now now This letter starts out like most ancient letters It begins with the author and his title the passage starts off like this by saying verse 1 Jude a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James. That's not who was written to that's who it was written by So I know that probably many of us don't immediately see it But Jude Jude or actually probably his Hebrew Aramaic name was probably more like Judah but Jude was a brother of Jesus Christ a blood brother of Jesus the gospel tells us that Jesus had four brothers and Jude's here says that he is the brother of James who's James there's no qualifiers given because this is the one and only James who is the current leader of the church based out of Jerusalem who was also the brother of Jesus, making Jude as well. But did you notice that Jude is so humble? He doesn't call himself the brother of Jesus. He calls him his servant. This shows us a lot, not just about Jude's character, but about the tone of the letter that we're about to read. It's genuine, it's humble. He is not saying, hey, listen to me because I'm Jesus' brother, y'all. He's like, I'm like you. I serve Jesus. So let's talk about how we can live out our faith more fully. Because I have to say this to you, it's amazing how well a conversation can go with people when you level with them, rather than immediately trying to exert your authority. Jude comes out and he does have authority. He's the brother of the Savior of the world. But he says, I'm his servant. Now listen, Jude has some strong words for Christians, but he starts by acknowledging that he is a servant of Christ, but also by offering up words of blessing. Verse 2, may mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you. What a beautiful blessing. Remember that, because we'll be using that during this series. So now that the introductions are set and the tone is now set, we'll see how these opening verses of Jude calls us to contend for the faith and to do so with a sense of urgency that is lost among many American Christians. Jude says there's something real going on and we need to attend to it right now by contending for the faith. He tells us to be unified, to be aware, and to be holy. Unified, aware, and holy. Let's look at the first one. The fight is now, so we are to be unified. It is very simple. It is very, very simple. The church is to be unified. Jesus himself said a house divided cannot stand. As a pastor, I will tell you now that my strongest words are not for lost sinners. My strongest words are for Christians who sow discord in the church. Jude, following his brother's call, Jesus' call, he wants unity. In verse 3, listen to how Jude appeals to their shared faith and their unified beliefs for the grounds of his letter. He addresses them as beloved, reminding them that they are objects of God's love. Christians, this is a just an aside. When we come here and we worship and we declare that we love God, did you know that if you are a believer and God loves you, that when we stand here and worship and we declare our great love for God, do you know that God has also declared his great love for you? You are an object of God's love. So he addresses them as beloved. Verse three, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. So Jude is first like, hey, I first wanted to write and just talk about how awesome Jesus is and how much we love him together. That's what I wanted to write, but there's something going on right now that I need to address, so listen to what I have to say. But before he does that, he starts with the unity that Christians are supposed to have. In verse three, if you notice, he talks about our common salvation and our faith once delivered. Our common salvation, referring to our common Savior, Jesus Christ, who was raised from the dead. And then Jude says that we are content for the faith, if you have your Bibles make sure you see this here, content for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. Saints just simply meaning fellow Christians. Uh-oh, modern day Christians. The faith that was once for all delivered to the faith. We are to have the same faith that Jude had. The faith does not change. It does not change based on culture. It does not change based on new societal norms or scientific discovery. We have the one faith, the true faith, that was handed down from Jesus himself to the apostles to the early church, which has now been in succession up until now. We don't get to change the faith because we think we're so enlightened. It is the one faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. We are to have the same ethics, same theology, and same as Jesus. And our fight for the faith will fail if we are not unified in this. So, let me say something here that may be a little scandalous for some people. This is why I think creeds and confessions are a good thing for the church. Not because they replace Scripture, hear me, they do not. Not because they're perfect, they most certainly are not. But what they do is they help ensure that the proper way to understand scripture is passed down through the ages. Because the Bible and the scripture is a lot like numbers. You can make numbers say anything you want them to say, whether or not it's the actual real answer. And with the Bible, you can pull things out of context and you can certainly misapply his teachings, especially around love. That is one of the biggest ways that our current culture, especially modern day Christians, are twisting the gospel is that we are misrepresenting what God's love truly is and how we are to love others. You can make numbers say whatever you want to do if you ignore the equations, and you can make the Bible say whatever you want if you ignore the context. But creeds and confessions, what they do is they help to ensure that the true and pure message of scripture doesn't get warped by heretical teachers, by changing times, or new generational trends. At Peace Church, we hold, this is the set of creeds that we hold too, it's called the Three Forms of Unity. Hatterberg Catechism, Belgic Confessions, and Canons of Door. Again, not because they're perfect and not because they replace scripture. They are subservient to scripture. They're not perfect, the scriptures are, but they are helpful tools to guide the teachings of the Bible through the church into the generations that are to come when pastors and elders change hands to the next generations. We need to be unified in what we believe about our common salvation so that we can contend for the unchanging faith that was once for all delivered to the Saints. But before we move on, I need to ask an obvious question. What does it actually mean to contend for the faith? Well, I think the answer lies in the word contend. Surprise, surprise. So, Bible study time. Despite the English word contend being used twice in Jude, the original Greek word that Jude uses here is a word that we only find once throughout the original manuscripts of the Bible. Here's the definition. The Greek word, the Greek verb that Jude uses for contend describes, listen to these words, it describes vigorous and determined effort, a struggle or contest, it conveys the idea of striving with intent, focus and dedications. Okay Christians in the house, let me challenge you for a moment. Don't let me challenge you, challenge yourself. Do any of those words describe your faith? Vigorous, determined, striving with intent focus. I think it is both safe and sad to say that many Christians are not contending for the faith. They're comfortable in the faith. Or worse, they're complacent. And this is why Jude, before anything else, he's calling us to stand unified, and then he's gonna call us to mission and call us to address the problem, which he does here now. He goes on to identify the immediate problem. This is the second thing. The fight is now, so we need to be aware. Yes, be unified, it's mission critical. We will not succeed if we are not unified, but we need to be awake to what's happening. And here's where the Bible begins to say things that I think are increasingly offensive to our modern ears. So my friends, here's your trigger warning. Let's look at the first part of verse four. If you're unfamiliar with the Bible, when we say 4a or 4b, we're talking about the first part of the scriptures. So verse 4a is the first part of verse 4. It says this, for certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people who pervert the grace of God. And so we are now getting to the crux of the matter for why Jude has written his letter. We must wake up and contend for the faith. Did I read this right? Because ungodly people have crept in. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. Jude, I thought the church was supposed to be a hospital for the broken, not a museum for the saints. Shouldn't we welcome ungodly people were coming to church. We want that to happen. Amen. We want lost sinners. We want people who don't know God to come into the church to hear the gospel message and to believe in the name of Jesus. We want that to happen. That's not what Jude is referring to here. There's a deeper problem. When Jude says people who have crept in, he's not talking about people who just come and attend church. Everyone's welcome to do that. He's talking about people who call themselves Christians and who are part of the church, maybe even leaders or teachers. The problem is that these people have begun to pervert the grace of God. That is as Jude will describe. They're using grace as an excuse to satisfy and sanction sin. And Jude is like, if you lose grace, you've lost it all. Even if the people who are doing it call themselves Christians. He's saying we need to contend for the faith, the faith that was delivered all. Because there's people who are within our ranks who are twisting the faith. So we need to be aware. But let me just say one thing real quick. He's not saying, therefore go on a witch hunt and find out who the heretics are. I think the first call is to look in the mirror and make sure that you're not one of those. Because the notion here, as we'll get into this letter, the notion here is that what was increasingly being shown is that there was a massive disconnect between what people people said they believed and how they lived. Meaning, meaning Sunday morning there were one type of person and then on the job site there were another type of person. Meaning they were one type of person at church, another type of person online. This is not a call to go on a witch hunt. This is the first to call to reflect in the mirror and then ensure that the faith is being made pure among all. But take note of Jude's word choice here. Ungodly people who pervert the grace of God. Now pervert is a strong word here, and it does lean into the nuance of what Jude says is happening, but the word simply means to change the position of something, to reinterpret. What had happened is there were people in the church who were taking grace and they were misapplying it, they were reinterpreting, they were changing its position of what it means. So what is grace? Great question. Very simply, I'd say it like this. Grace is how you are saved. You are saved by grace. Grace is getting what we do not deserve salvation but God gives it to us he graces it to us through our faith in Jesus Christ this is the gospel my friends that when we call upon the name of Jesus and believe that he rose from the dead we are saved not because God owes us or because we found some magic formula but because Jesus Christ died on the cross in our place paying for our sin and when we believe God chooses, graces us to apply Christ's sacrifice to our debt of sin. This is grace. It's God's gift to us. It calls us out of our sin and into a living relationship with the living God where Christ has now become the Lord of our life, leading us into the life that God has designed for us, how we are to live both before him and in our relationship with him. But what these people were doing was taking grace, taking God's love and forgiveness, and using it as an excuse to remain in their sin, as a license to do whatever they wanted. They were perverting grace into an excuse to sanction whatever they desired, what God called sin. It's almost like they were saying, we're saved by grace, therefore we can do whatever we want because God loves us. It's almost like they were saying, Jesus loves us just where we are at and exactly how we are, or how we might say it today, Jesus loves me for me, and there's nothing about me that needs to change. You're not gonna find that in the Bible anywhere. This is what worldly and ungodly people say. We think because God loves and forgives, that means we can do whatever we want, and therein lies the problem. So again, rather than going on a witch hunt, let's first look in the mirror. Let's first be aware of our own life and actions to make sure that our life and our doctrine line up. Because people who call themselves Christians need to be pursuing holiness, and that's the last thing we'll look at. The fight is now, so we need to be holy. The verse finishes, ungodly people who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only master and Lord Jesus Christ. Now I know we have kids in the room and I'm thankful for it, so I'll try to keep this PG. Here's the definition of what the Bible means by sensuality, edited for audience purposes. The word refers to unrestrained, shameless behavior, often associated with sexual excess or moral depravity. In the New Testament, it's people who give themselves to their own personal desires rather than giving themselves to God's Holy Spirit. And Jude is saying there are people like that within the church. And it shows because their lives do not align with a true faith that was handed down once for all. So here's the rub and here's the truth bomb and here's something that I'll probably get some emails about. Not everyone who calls themselves a Christian is a Christian. Pastor Ryan, you can't say that. That's way too judgmental of you. Okay, then you tell me what else we can derive from this passage. Because it's not just that they've twisted grace, but by doing so, they've even as the passage continues, they've denied our only master and Lord Jesus Christ. How can a person say they're a Christian and also deny Jesus as Lord? There's two ways actually. The first is when they call themselves a Christian, but they don't live for Christ. If you are a Christian, that means Jesus is your master and Lord. You live for him. That's what it means to be a Christian. Christian just means a little Christ, that he is our Lord and Master. But also, the other way, maybe a shock to people here, particularly in Peace Church, because we're so innocent here. But there's a fair amount of people who openly say they are a Christian and openly say they do not believe Jesus is the Lord. In 2022, so pretty recently, in 2022, Ligonier Ministries found that 43% of professing evangelicals, 43% agreed with this statement, Jesus was a great teacher, but he was not God. That's almost half. If that's a shock to you, hate to break it to you, but you live in a bubble. That is the state of Christianity in this world. That's why we take so seriously what we're doing here at Peace Church. Half, nearly half of professing Christians are like, sure, Jesus was a great moral teacher, but he's not Lord or God. You see, my friends, this is what happens when a generation stops going to church. This is the fruit of that. When parents chose other things, when families didn't make church a priority, this is what happens. And we should not be surprised at all. When we stop going to church to hear the word preached, when we stop seeking the Spirit, when we stop training our kids in the way of righteousness and holiness, when we abandon the faith once delivered all to the saints. This is what happens when we stop contending for the faith, that vigorous determination. The question before us is painfully obvious. Parents and grandparents, are you teaching your kids to contend for the faith? Dads, do you understand that your house is a training ground for faith? Do we teach our kids to contend for the faith or do we teach them to cherry pick the faith? You know what cherry pickers are, right? They'll pick and choose what commandments and teachings of Jesus they want to honor and obey. They'll talk about his love. Oh, we love to talk about his love, but we will not even come close to engaging his call to repent. They'll love Jesus' words against religious people, but completely ignore the fact that Jesus also calls out the crowds. We don't get to cherry pick which teachings of Jesus we are to follow. Jesus calls us to pick up our cross and follow him. We are called to contend. I don't know about you, but I will trust my life with the one who saved my soul. So my friends, where are you? Comfortable, complacent, or contending. I don't know if you've ever been in a fight, but it's kind of an all-or-nothing thing. When you are in a fight, there's not a part of you that's not engaged in what's going on. When we are called to contend for the faith, it is a all-or-nothing endeavor. There's no cherry-picking, there's no half-heartedness. To contend for the faith takes our entire body, our entire spirits. So do you contend for the faith? Do your words and actions contend for or against the faith once delivered for all? See, we live in a world... I wonder if I should include this part, but I'm just going to. We live in a world where people post their lives online for all to see. Where we go on vacation, when our kids go to prom, what we had for lunch, what we believe about immigration. I'm simply asking you, what are you showing the world? By all means, by all means, share good memories. My son turns 10 today. You better believe I'll be posting pictures of him online. By all means, share good memories. But I'm telling you, there is too much going on in this world for Christians to do anything other than contend for the faith here and now. To show how faith informs every aspect of our lives, that we are contending for the faith, not just living comfortable lives. I'm thankful for the comforts that we have in this world. But some of us, that's become the very trap that keeps us from contending for our faith. This is the time to stand and to hold fast to what matters most. So may you contend for the faith because the fight is right now. It's happening here now in your homes, in the world, outside your doors. It's time to contend, to be all in. Contend for the faith because the fight is now. And before we close up, let me just recognize one thing. I know many of you, I know many of you would say, I don't have the strength to fight right now. And let me just say something to you with pastor, pastorly love. You never have the strength to do this. Whether your life is terrible or terrific, you don't have the strength to do this. This is why we have to call on the presence of the Holy Spirit and the power of the name of Jesus Christ. That's where we get our strength to contend. That's where we get our focus. You think he's gonna call you to do this and then leave you alone in the battle. He is right there. He is your strength. Many of us, we just, we fall to our sin without even putting up a fight, without even calling on the name of Jesus. Trust in the promises of God. Trust in the power and presence of the Holy Spirit and trust in the power of the name of Jesus. Amen? Because we need to contend because the fight is right now. Amen. power of the name of Jesus. Amen? Because we need to contend because the fight is right now. Amen. Amen.

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The Story of Job - His Humility Sermon Series: The Story of Job Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: Job 32-37 Transcript Today is the day that the Lord has made. So let us rejoice and be glad in it. And everyone everywhere, whether you're here in one of the other venues or online, everyone said amen. Well, if you're lucky enough to still have a good mom in your life, make sure that you treat her well today, not just treat her well. Why don't you go ahead and take the next step and actually not just give her a gift, but share why she's special to you? Share what you appreciate about her. For so many of us, our moms were the first ones to wipe our little tushies. And therefore a little honor and humility toward them is in order. Okay, I'm gonna about to order a bunch of coffee for everyone here. If you don't start waking up. We are in the story of Job. And you know what? The story of Job is heavy. And if you've been walking with us for the last number of weeks as we walk through the story of Job, you've probably felt some of this weight, which is right. It's right to feel the weight of Job. It's right to feel the weight of someone who is so good and so righteous, yet suffered so much. It's okay. And it's right to be, to have a somber reflection of that. Today, we're going to continue our story of Job and just like how our mothers demonstrate humility towards us, we're going to see Job receive a massive dose of humility this morning, not just in what is told to him, but in who tells it to him. So we are coming off last week where Pastor Nate did a wonderful job of preaching through 29 chapters of Job. And saw during those 29 chapters we saw Job wrestle with his suffering through the advice and counsel and questions of three of his friends. His three friends come and they sit with him and they discuss why Job's suffering so much. But ultimately, we come to see that the conversation ultimately goes nowhere. For 29 chapters of the Bible, Job discusses with these other men. And there's a lot to be gleaned, but it ultimately doesn't go anywhere. But what we're going to find out today in our passage is that for those 29 chapters, for all that discussion between Job and his three friends, there was another person sitting there, observing, watching, listening, processing, waiting for his turn to speak. And this man's name is Elihu. Would you please turn in your Bibles to Job chapter 32? We're gonna sink our teeth into one specific section that Elihu teaches to us, but we're gonna take a moment, we're gonna get to know this guy first. He is an awesome, awesome guy. He is definitely someone that we should be naming our sons after. Elihu is an awesome guy, and what he has to say is phenomenal. But let's first take a moment, let's just meet this man. Here's a painting of him from Arthur Ackland Hunt. So Elihu just kind of emerges in chapter 32 on the heels of this massive conversation, this 29-chapter conversation, Elihu emerges and before we go into what he says, let's just meet this guy and get to know him for a moment. Let's just walk through chapter 32 really briefly together. So if you have your Bibles, we're gonna look at 32 verses one and down. So the Bible says that, so these three men, speaking of Job's friends that we looked at last week, these three men ceased to answer Job because Job was righteous in his own eyes. Then Elihu, the son of Barakel, the Buzite of the family of Ram, burned with anger. He burned with anger at Job because Job justified himself rather than God. He burned with anger also at Job's three friends because they found no answer, although they had declared Job to be in the wrong. Now Elihu waited to speak to Job because they were older than he. And when Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, he burned with anger. Did you count how many times it says that Elihu's angry? So what's going on here? So Elihu's been sitting there quietly listening to this conversation that lasted 29 chapters between Job and his friend, a conversation that ultimately got nowhere, and now Elihu is angry. The Bible says he's angry for three reasons. One, he saw that Job was righteous in his own eyes, meaning he's beginning to see the pride in Job emerge in the way that Job was handling his suffering because, here's Job's great fault, Job was focusing on himself rather than God, Elihu identifies that and it makes him angry. Second thing, Elihu is mad at the three friends. Why? Because they kept saying that Job is suffering because of sin in Job's life, but they couldn't provide any proof of Job's sin. And Elihu is basically like, this is the heaviest of all situations of suffering in history and you can't go around accusing someone of sin and then not being able to prove it. That also makes Elihu really angry. And the third thing that makes Elihu angry is that he's mad because their conversation went on and on and on and ultimately got nowhere. We find out that Elihu is the youngest among them. This is important. He's the youngest among Job and Job's three friends. So out of respect, this younger man waits to speak. And let me just stop here real quick and just say, I understand that this is an ancient Near East historical context, cultural context from 4,000 years ago, but I'm going to tell you right now, for those who are younger among us, that's a wise thing to do. Let those who are older go first, let those who are older speak first. You sit and listen, not saying you can't speak, but I think a lie. He was such a great example that he listens first. He listens for a long time. He listens to the point where actually he gets angry, but he lets them speak first. And when they've had their say, that's when he speaks up when he sees that the conversation has ended, but gotten nowhere. That's when he speaks, go to verse six. And then a lie here, the son of Barakel, the Buzite, answered and said, I am young in years, and you are aged. Therefore, I was timid and afraid to declare my opinion to you. I said, let days speak and many years teach wisdom. But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand. Look at verse nine. It is not the old who are wise, nor the aged who understand what is right. All right, stop right here for a second. So Elihu, the youngest one there, steps up and challenges them all. He steps up to the plate and basically says, yeah, yes, I'm the youngest one here, but just because you're older than me doesn't make you wiser than me because it's God's spirit in a person that makes them wise, not the number of years that they've lived. And then Elihu, like a boss, says this in verse 10. He says, therefore I say, listen to me. He's saying, it's my turn now. It's my turn to speak. And this is actually reminiscent of something the apostle Paul teaches Timothy in the New Testament. When the apostle Paul tells the younger man, Timothy, this, he says, let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, conduct, love, faith, and impurity. So this younger man, Elihu, steps up, and again, for the younger generations among us, this is why we seek the Lord, to gain wisdom. Yes, yes, of course, we listen to those who have gone before us. Our moms set great examples for that. But the Bible tells us that it's the breath of the almighty that gives a person insight. It's the breath of the almighty. It's the spirit of God that makes a person wise. And the Bible says that the word of God is God's breath. The word of God is the Bible. It's God-breathed. So to know wisdom, we must know God's word, the Bible, which has been challenging humanity since it was written yet continues to stand the test of time and continues to be the best seller and most read book in the entire world. The Bible does not say, once you hit 60, then you're wise. The Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. When you know your place before God, that's when you can start to gain insight. And so God uses this younger man Elihu to teach and to humble Job and his friends. In over six chapters, Elihu teaches Job and he teaches us. And there's so much here. There's so much richness. And we're gonna sink our teeth into one specific passage, but if I could just give you a quick broad overview of Elihu's grand speech, it would be something like this. Elihu's speech to Job through these chapters, 32 to 37, is this. Number one, God is not silent in our suffering. We cry out to God, we think He's not answering, God is not silent. God speaks through pain, He speaks through His word. God is not unjust in our suffering. We're going to find that out in a little bit more detail here this morning. God is not unjust in our suffering. Elihu goes on in the next chapter, 35, to say that God is not absent in our suffering. He is present with us. The fourth thing that Elihu shows us is God is not helpless in our suffering. God doesn't stand aside and wish that he could do something, but doesn't. This all feeds into the grand and great mystery of faith. You know, at some point, we're gonna have to come back and do a real study on Elihu. I love this guy, but I think it's really good for us to zero in on chapter 34 here this morning. So again, if you have your Bibles open, I hope you do. Jump over to chapter 34. We're going to look at verses 1 to 15 this morning. Now, as you're turning there, we really have to understand the worldview that these guys were leaning on. And let it challenge your own worldview, but here's what's going on. Now, these guys, they understood the world in a very black and white term, in a very black and white way. See, they believe that God was just, that he was, he was a God of justice. He did what was right. They believe that God is just meaning they believe that good people got blessed by God and bad people got cursed by God. This was their worldview. This is what they believed. And so what happened was you got Job, this righteous man who was suffering, that did not fit into their worldview. And now they had to try to reconcile what they were experiencing with what they knew to be true about God and it leads them to some bad and dark places, which we're going to find out in a second. This is what they believed. That God blessed the good and He cursed the bad, and now they are confronted with a situation that didn't fit into that. Job's friends say, yes, God is just, God is good. Therefore, Job, you must have some sort of secret sin in your life that we don't know about, although they couldn't point to anything. But on the flip, what we see is Job begin to articulate, I'm righteous. I'm righteous before God, and yet I'm suffering, therefore God must be unjust. Both of them came to the wrong conclusion. And Elihu steps up to provide some much-needed correction. And what he says is, you guys, your whole frame of thinking is off. And this is what Elihu begins to articulate and share. And so, with that massively long introduction. Let's read God's Word. Chapter 34 of Job, verses 1 to 15, would you please hear the word of the Lord? Then Elihu answered and said, hear my words, you wise men, and give ear to me, you who know. Stop right there for a second. It's kind of hard not to read a snarky tone in that. I'll just be honest with you. Hear my words, you wise men, and give ear to me, you who know. For the ear tests words as the palate tastes food. Let us choose what is right. Let us know among ourselves what is good. For Job has said, I am in the right, and God has taken away my right. In spite of my right, I am counted as a liar. My wound is incurable, though I am without transgression." Then Elihu picks up and says, What man is like Job, who drinks up scoffing like water, who travels in company with evildoers, who walks with wicked men? For he has said, it profits a man nothing that he should take delight in God. Therefore hear me, you men of understanding, far be it from God that he should do wickedness, and the Almighty that he should do wrong. For according to the work of man he will repay him and according to his ways, he will make it befall him. Of a truth God will not do wickedly and the Almighty will not pervert justice. Who gave him charge over the earth? Who laid on him the whole world? If he should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust." This is God's word. Let's pray, and we'll continue. Let's pray together. Father God in heaven above, Lord, we thank you on this day for the mothers and the mothers in spirit among us who show us so well, so often, the meaning of humility. But most of all, we thank you for our humble Savior, Jesus. Help us today, Father, by the power and presence of your Holy Spirit, that we would know the power of this passage. Father, would you be with me, that I may bring about your truth well to my friends and family here? And it's in Jesus' name that we pray. And everyone said, Amen. All right, so there's so much that we could glean from Elihu. But from this passage here, I just want to give you one thing. I'm going to warn you, this is a layered, thick main point here today. And here it is. Faith is having the humility in suffering to say that we may never fully understand what we know to be true. I know that sounds paradoxical, but let's listen to it. Let's see it again. Faith is having the humility in suffering to say that we may never fully understand what we know to be true. And as we look at these 15 verses here, here's our breakdown for this morning, here's your outline. When suffering, we need to have the humility to critique your own position, to change your own presuppositions, and to challenge your own pride. When suffering, have the humility to critique your own position, change your own presupposition, and challenge your own pride. And as we get going, I just want to remind ourselves of something here before we start jumping to lessons and application and all this. It took unimaginable suffering for Job to come to a place of humility where he could learn these lessons. And as we talked about before at the beginning of this series, listen here, I know, I know a lot of us, like, suffering is just not part of the equation for our lives. So a sermon like this could feel like a throwaway for you, but I'm telling you, on this side of eternity, you need to be prepared for suffering. This is a sermon, I believe, that you may not feel like you need it right now, but at some point in your life, it's something you need to have in your back pocket to pull out when the time is right. And I know, I fully would submit to you that I know that my words can appear dull and unsharpened by lack of experience. But as Elihu pointed out, it's not age or life experience that makes our words true. It's God breathing life into those words. By the way, what I just said would get me canceled in today's world. But let's see what God's truth says. The first thing that we need to look at is when suffering, we need to have the humility to critique our own position. Let's continue in verse chapter 34. Then Elihu answered and said, hear my words, you wise men, and give ear to me, you who know. So Elihu continues his rebuke and he places his words before them. He lays his argument before them. He doesn't hide behind his feelings. He doesn't hide behind compassion. He says, listen to what I say. Verse 3, for the ear, tests words as the palate tastes food. He's telling these older men, to take my words to task. Listen to what I say. Debate with me. Taste them. Touch them. Test them. He's telling them to engage. He's not gonna let them off the hook. He wants them to receive his words. This is completely the opposite of what's happening in our world today. In our world, when someone's confronted with an idea that offends them or they don't like, what do they do? They shut down the conversation and they run away. Church, we cannot play that. We cannot be that way. We have to be able to stand our ground, know what we're saying, and engage in the conversation like Elihu is calling us to do. He says, in verse 4, let us choose what is right. Let us know among ourselves what is good. Elihu is saying, let's be objective here. What is the right and good thing to do? He says the right and good thing to do is not a matter of opinion here, gentlemen. He says we don't get to walk away from this situation, just living our own truth he says there's something larger going on at play here we need to determine and figure out what that is listen to me a lot of you is like the anti woke he's not gonna let people think that they can just determine their own reality here he will not respect a thought on the matter if it's not grounded in truth capital T truth he's not running away with the car he's not gonna run away from the conversation. He wants to have an exchange of ideas. He says, test what I'm saying. If I'm wrong, show me. Because remember, here's the whole problem. Here's the tension they're dealing with. Job is righteous, yet he's suffering. So the question on the table is this. Job's suffering makes God unjust. So Elihu shows up and basically says, you have your own thoughts on the matter, but it's now, it's time to put those thoughts to the test. It's time to consider the faults of your own position. Listen to what I say, and let's see where we land. And church, this goes back to the entire theme of this whole series. That the best way to deal with and the best way to prepare for suffering and loss and pain is not by answering why, but by knowing God. Church, I have a question for you. Don't answer this one out loud, because I'm kind of scared of what you'd say, but don't answer this out loud, but what is one thing that is true for all people? If you're in one of the other venues, I ask you the same thing. What is one thing that is true for all people? I can tell you this, with nearly 20 years of ministry under my belt, talking with people on multiple different continents from all over, one thing I know about humans, one of the hardest things for any of us to do is to change our minds. And that goes for everyone who can hear my voice, probably. So many people lack the humility to fully critique their own positions. And here's why, because here's what people do. Here's what humans do. We equate our opinions on the matter with the truth of the matter. We can't differentiate between the two. And in the church, this becomes even more insidious because we've turned our preferences into battles of morality and theological integrity. And, by the way, battles of morality and theological integrity are at stake, but they shouldn't be birthed from our preferences, but God's truth. As we consider our own positions, the next step is to consider from what place those positions are birthed, our presuppositions, which leads to number two. When suffering, have the humility to change your own presuppositions. So, meaning, here's the question, like, from what base truth am I building my worldview? What's the truth that I base my arguments upon? And suffering, when done in humility, can lead to a change in your presuppositions. Listen to this, verse five. For Job has said, I am in the right, and God has taken away my right. Meaning here's what Job's saying, Job is saying, I'm righteous. I am righteous and I have done nothing to deserve this. This is an injustice, what is happening to me. And then Job basically is saying, which shows that God has denied me justice. Meaning, Job is saying that God is being unjust. This is huge. Job is convinced of this as we see in verse six look at verse six in spite of my right I am counted a liar now this is all in poetic form so let's understand what's happening here this is such an insightful verse job says in spite of my right I am counted a liar what job is saying is that God has done this to me without cause but when I say that that this means that God is unjust, people accuse me of speaking falsely. And Job is saying, how am I in the wrong? He goes on to say, my wound is incurable, though I am without transgression. Translation, Job is saying, God is doing an injustice to me, and here's the proof. I am suffering but without cause. So how can I be lying or saying something untruthful? If God is good and I'm good but I'm suffering, that makes God unjust. Right? This all stems from his presupposition of the matter, which is faulty. And Elihu is going to attack that premise. And he challenges us all to do that. What is the reality that you base your worldview upon? And does it lead you to believe things that are not true about God? Job is saying this because he's relying on his presupposition that God would not allow, that God would not allow those who are righteous to suffer. And this is such a key, key lesson for us. People hear me. When we don't understand God, His being, His motive, His justice, his plan. When we don't understand that, then it's our worldview, meaning our moral and theological framework, that's what needs to be challenged first, not God. And Job, rather than believing that God knows more and God knows better than he does, Job is sticking to his presuppositions, which leads to the wrong conclusion that God is unjust. And with that, Elihu lets him have it. Go to verse seven. It says, what man is like Job, who drinks up scoffing like water? What Elihu is saying is that Job, Job you're too loose with your words right now my friend. You're too quick to judge God without first considering how your thinking could be wrong. And Elihu continues to lay into him, verse eight. He says, speaking of Job, you who travel in the company of evildoers and walks with wicked men. Remember the context. Job's friends are standing right there. Like Elihu was speaking and Job's friends are like, well, this is awkward. Yeah, because they're standing right there. Elihu is bringing the fire because they've been no help either. He's saying if you're all going to stand there and say nothing but spit accusations at God, then you are wicked. Elihu continues, verse 9, for he, meaning Job, for Job has said, it profits a man nothing that he should take the light in God. Job is asking, if God is going to allow this to happen to me, then what is the point of worshiping God? Job is saying, what's the point of trying to enjoy God if life is terrible? Church don't make this mistake. Church do not make this mistake. Rather than questioning his own presuppositions, Job questions God. And here we begin to uncover Job's capacity to sin. This isn't from me, but it was once summarized that Job did not suffer because he sinned, he sinned because he suffered. Elihu is saying we all know God is just, that is true. And so when it seems like God is unjust, it's not because God is wrong, it's because our presuppositions are faulty, they betray us. We are the ones who are wrong, not God. Elihu is saying, we all know it to be true, that we humans think we know it all, especially in today's world. We think we know it all. We think we are people who are more righteous than God. Mankind thinks that we can outsmart God. Do you know what that's called? Pride. And pride is the thing that limits our ability to fully understand what's going on, which is such a dangerous thing because pride is so celebrated. Pride limits our ability to fully understand what's going on. And Elihu's calling that out, which leads to this last thing. When suffering, when suffering, we need to challenge our own pride. Now Elihu, here, he goes for the checkmate. Verse 10 and 11 says, "'Therefore, hear me, you men of understanding. "'Far be it from God that he should do wickedness, "' and from the Almighty that he should do wrong. For according to the work of man, he will repay him, and according to his ways, he will make it befall him. Here's what Elihu says, in verse 12. Of a truth God will not do wickedly, and the Almighty will not pervert justice. Elihu was saying, God is good. God is just. He's saying, don't think for a second anything other than that. Yes, sin will be held to account. The wrongdoer will be held to account, but it's according to God's timeline, not yours. And to further challenge our pride, Elihu was saying, if you have a complaint, what are you going to do about it? If you have a complaint, what higher authority are you going to appeal to other than God himself? There is only God and there is none higher. He goes on to say, who gave God, verse 13, who gave God charge over the earth? Who laid on him the whole world? The answer of course is no one, no one bequeathed to God, his status on God, or his dominion over the earth. There is only God and none higher. He goes on to say in verses 14 and 15 if God should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together and man would return to dust. Elihu is saying to Job and to us all, remember your place in the universe, Job. You only have breath, you only have breath in your lungs. You only have life because God wills it to be so every moment. And this should give us, especially those of us who know God, perpetual humility. Elihu is not saying that what Job is going through is easy. Elihu doesn't undermine Job's pain. He's not saying that it's easy what Job is going through, he's not dismissing it. Elihu doesn't undermine Job's suffering like this, but it's clear. Elihu is telling us that suffering is not an excuse to sin. It's not an excuse to challenge God's justice. Rather, our suffering is a call for humility because God is not vengeful. God's not vengeful. He's not spiteful. God's not mean. God is good and he is just, and if you are led to think otherwise, it's your presuppositions that need to be challenged. Because when times of suffering come, we must remember that faith is having the humility in suffering to say that we may never fully understand what we know to be true. If we have any questions on this, then let's just take it up a notch and see the suffering of Jesus. If we think that the suffering of Job is troublesome, let's look at the suffering of Jesus. Let's look at the gospel. The gospel is good news. The gospel is that the righteous one, the sinless one, suffered for the unrighteous, for the sinful, so that we could be saved. A plaguing question that mankind has is, how can suffering ever lead to something good? Well, that answer is most clearly and profoundly found in the Gospel of Jesus, that Christ died on the cross in our place for our sins. The theologians would say that's substitutionary atonement. He died in our place for our sins so that we would not face the judgment that is due us for our sins, but rather through our faith in Jesus, what happens is that God gives the righteousness of Jesus to us, and we are seen as more righteous than Job, for we have the righteousness of Christ in us. And this happens, listen to me, not through our suffering, but through the suffering of Jesus. The gospel is the declaration that God is good, that God is holy, and that He will do what is right even when we don't fully understand it. And listen to me, what goes for justice goes for love. God's love for us, we may know it, but we will never fully comprehend it. The love that is described loved the world that he gave his one and only son. Mothers, mothers, could you give your only son? What sort of love is this? This is beyond us, that God would so love the world that he gave his only son so that whoever believes in him will not perish, will not die, but have everlasting life so that we would know the love of God. This is the gospel that Jesus, the one who was given, the one who was sinless, suffered for those like us who are sinful. Jesus suffered and died taking our place for us. And the story of Job is definitely a tension that every thinking person and every Christian needs to grapple with. The story of Job is a tension we must face. And the suffering of Job is something we must consider, what he endured. But all of that suffering needs to point us to something even greater, even greater suffering. It should turn us to Jesus and the suffering that He endured for us. Amen. Do me a favor, let's stand up. Let's have a little chat for a second. As we sing this morning, we sing some of the old hymns. I know there are people who deeply love the hymns, but if you sing because you love the hymns. But if you sing because you love the hymns and not firstly because you love God, I'm telling you, you're singing wrongly. We are going to sing of God's great love for us. And there is a world that looks upon the church and wonders, do you even believe what you say? Do you even believe what you sing about? And church, I'm telling you, right now is your chance to respond to that in the way that you sing of God's love. So let's pray. Father, we pray here and now as we come before your holy throne of grace. Father, we know that we are only able to do that because of what Jesus has done for us. So Father, as you sent your spirit, Father, I pray you to continue to do that. Holy Spirit, we pray that you'd fill this place with your presence, that we might be reminded of the goodness of God, the holiness of God, and the love of God, as we are reminded of the suffering of Jesus who suffered in our place. So fill us with your spirit as we sing of this great love. Father, we love you and we thank you and we pray these things in Jesus' name. Father, we love you and we thank you and we pray these things in Jesus' name. And everyone said very loudly. Amen.

Bob Hudberg Most Recent Content from Bob Hudberg A Psalm of Asaph Watch Sermon Fit for a King - Our Proclamation; Go Tell It On the Mountain Well, good morning, Peace Church. Oh, that was so bad. Good morning, Peace Church. That was much better. We're so glad. I am PB. I'm the care pastor here. Get the opportunity to preach today, which is really wonderful for me. I hope it is for you, too. But this is the last day of 2023. And for some of you, it's been a really tough year. A lot of disappointments, a lot of anxiety, a lot of things that have happened in your life. For some of you, you've had a life full of joy. There hasn't been a whole lot going on. Watch Sermon

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Be Holy Sermon Series: Hate Speech Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: Ephesians 4:15 Transcript Man, I also want to say good morning to you. Isn't it a great morning so far? Isn't it a great morning so far? Let me hear you. Amen. It is. Hey, if you weren't aware today, today, Peace Church became a multi-site church. We launched our first campus over in Wayland today. They're having their first service this morning. Hold on before you clap because I got something even better for you. We were really praying that somewhere between like 150 and 200 people would be there on the first Sunday, just to kind of give some gravity and momentum for it to launch. We just got word that 280 people showed up. Yeah. Pretty awesome. We are thankful to join the other gospel preaching churches in Wayland and make sure that community is well served with the gospel. Hey, if we haven't met yet, my name is Ryan. I'm the lead pastor here at Peace Church. I haven't preached for a few weeks, so it's good to be back. It's good to see you, and I'm eager to get to it. So let's just get to it, shall we? Today is the day that the Lord has made. So let us rejoice and be glad in it. And everyone said? And everyone said? Amen. Part of Christian history is that Christians have always been accused of being something we are not. This is in a sense part of our heritage. In fact, the early Christians, like those very first Christians, did you know that they were accused of cannibalism? And the reason was because we celebrate this thing called communion. And for us, for Christians, it's a reenactment of the gospel where we take bread and we break it, and we take a drink and we pour it out, and we say, this is symbolic of what Jesus Christ has done for us on the cross. That is, his body was broken and his blood was poured out. And so what we do is we say, this is, Jesus told us to do this in remembrance of him. That we say, this is his body, this is his blood. And so what we do is we eat the bread and we drink, and we say, this is like receiving what Jesus has done for us. This is like receiving Jesus life into us but the watching world looked at this and they heard us say that we are going to be eating the body and blood of Jesus and they said whoa you guys are practicing cannibalism over there. Did you also know that Christians were accused of incest? Now, Christians and Christianity is couched in family language. God is our Father. Fellow Christians are brothers and sisters in Christ. And the Christian call is for Christians to only get married to other Christians. And so, we talk about brothers and sisters in Christ getting married. But the watching world looked at this and they said, brothers and sisters get married in your church? You guys are practicing incest. Did you also know that Christians were accused of atheism? Atheism. We have one of the most robust theologies. We believe that God came to earth, born that baby boy on Christmas, and yet we were accused of atheism. And the reason is because Christianity was birthed in the Roman world. And the Romans, they did worship, but they worshipped through idols, through statues and figurines. And that's all they knew of worship was when you worshipped your God, you worshipped your God through this idol or through this statue. But they looked at Christians and we don't do that. We worship the invisible God. And they said, you have no idol that you worship. You all must be atheists. And it's because the world judges us only on what they know. They do not look at the true intentions of our actions or our hearts. Christians, being accused of something we are not, unfortunately, is part of our history. And so here's what I'd say to you. You cannot get discouraged by this. It's been happening for 2,000 years. And today, the most recent inception of this is today Christians are being accused of having a message that is hate speech. Hate speech. Because we believe that the Bible is the Word of God and no other religious text is. That we believe Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. That all people on earth are only getting to heaven through what Jesus Christ has done. We believe that God made humans to be male and female, that every person born, whether born or unborn, is made in the image of God. We believe that marriage is meant for one man and for one woman for a lifelong commitment. The world looks at these statements and they say, this is bigotry and hate. And yet again, it's because the world only looks at us based on what they know. This will go down in history as just another instance of the world not knowing truly who we are, what we believe, the foundation or the goal of our message. That's why we're kicking off this fall with a sermon series called Hate Speech. When truth and love is no longer tolerated. Because when truth and love is no longer tolerated, all the world will hear from us is what they interpret as hate speech. And here's the reality, it does not matter how much love you couch the truth in. When the world has bought into lies, when the world hears the truth, they can only hear hate. And as we look at scriptures, it so much speaks to this. But for this series, we're going to zoom in on one chapter of the Bible. Would you please turn to Ephesians chapter 4. That's where we're going to look and spend our time for this entire sermon series. I think Ephesians chapter 4 says some timely and timely, timeless and timely things for us. But here's what I'm going to say to you. This entire sermon series we're going to walk through this entire chapter, but for today we're going to zoom in on one verse. We're going to look at one verse today as we kick off this series, and then for the rest of the message series, we're gonna zoom out and walk through the entire chapter. But this one verse that we're looking at today has a very infamous phrase. Ephesians chapter four talks about truth in love. Ephesians chapter four, verse 15 is where we're gonna look at today. That's on page 1243, if you wanna use the Bible as provided. Now as you're turning there, let's lay some context here. Now when the Apostle Paul wrote this, we call it a book, but it's really a letter. It's a letter that the Apostle Paul wrote to the church in Ephesus. That's why we call it Ephesians. It was written to the Ephesian believers in Ephesus. Now we know that this letter was written right around 60 AD. That's like 30 years after Jesus Christ died and rose again. Now, 30 years, I'll tell you, is not a long time. As odd as it, and hard as it may be for me to swallow, 30 years ago was about when I was in high school. It wasn't that long ago. We're not talking about a great amount of time between the death of Christ and when this letter was written. Paul wrote this letter from prison. Why was he in prison? He was in prison for doing the very thing that I'm doing right now, preaching the gospel. Now, at this time in history, Christianity was still making its way through cities and cultures, and so Paul writes to the Christians in Ephesus, and he writes to clarify some Christian doctrine, and he also talks about our ethic as Christians. And in the middle of chapter 4, in verse 15, he uses this phrase, truth in love. So let's look at this verse and where it comes from, and then we'll dig into it. So with that, would you hear God's word? Ephesians 4:15 "Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into Him who is the head, into Christ." This is God's Word. Let's pray and we'll continue. Let's pray. Father God, we come before you on this fall launch and as we kick off the fall, Lord, we are seeing a world increasingly becoming intolerant to the Christian moral and ethic and message. Father, I pray that you would help us to be people who live according to your standard and your example, not the world's. And so, Lord, we pray these things for your glory. We pray these things for our joy. And Lord, with the deepest sincerity of our hearts, we pray these things for the good of our neighbor. And it's in the power of the Spirit and in the name of Jesus that we pray these things and everyone said amen and amen. So church we're looking at one verse today But one verse with a very profound calling and so if I give you one main idea, here's what it would be: When truth and love is no longer tolerated, we must be holy When truth and love is no longer tolerated, we must be holy. And as we look at this one verse today, here's our outline. Our action is speaking truth. Our approach is loving others. Our aim is becoming holy. So again, Ephesians 4:15, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into Him who is the head, into Christ. 1. Our action is speaking truth So first, our action is speaking truth. Okay, let's just do a quick little Bible study here for a minute, okay? This phrase, speaking the truth, speaking the truth is actually one word in the original language. It's a word that meant to speak reality into a person's life so that they can have a knowledge of what God has deemed true fact or reality, as opposed to personal illusion. We can't really say it like this in English, it's too weird and clunky, but a really good translation might be truthing. We are truthing in love. Now, this is because it's not about your truth, it's not about my truth, it's not about their truth, this is about the truth. In fact, the only other time we see this word in Scripture, in the Bible, is when Paul uses it and he writes to the Galatians and he says to them, he says, have I become your enemy by speaking the truth? Because Paul knew what we all knew, that you cannot speak truth in today's world without creating enemies. That is part of the package. And so here's a question. What is truth? What are we talking about here? Pontius Pilate asked that question to Jesus right before Christ was crucified. What is truth? Well, I'm here to tell you, Jesus Christ is the truth. In fact, he said so much in John 14:6, Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life and with the resurrection of Jesus Christ proving that he was who he said he was, Jesus Christ is the truth and Jesus said that God's Word, Scriptures,The Bible, is God's Word and it's true, and while the Bible does not tell us everything that is true, what it does is it gives us a framework to develop a biblical worldview. That is true. And so God's truth, one of the things I want you to understand is God's truth is meant for our good. It's the way of love. Christians are to share God's truth because God's truth is outside preference, opinion, and culture. So here's the big question: How and when does truth become hate speech? How does it come to this? Well, let me clarify. And I'm just gonna say it right now. I'm hoping there's a Christian in the house who will say amen after this statement. Let me clarify here. Truth is not hate. Like we really gotta be on the same page about that before we move forward. Truth is not hate, but here's the reality. Truth can be given hatefully. Now stick with me here because we're all about to be challenged, about to step on all of our toes, including my own. If we give someone the truth, but they translate it as hate, I am telling you the first right and humble thing that we are to do is to check ourselves. To consider how our words might be translated as hate again. Truth is not hate, so if people are genuinely receiving our truth-telling as hate speech, then maybe it's because we're speaking out of anger or arrogance rather than love. Tell me if you resonate with this. With so much available online, what often happens is that I'll watch something online and I will ultimately agree with the person's base message, but I do not agree with how they're saying it. Anybody know what I'm talking about? One of the great challenges to Christians is that God does care how we speak. Listen, yup, facts don't care about your feelings. It's the truth. But Christians should. Because we are to love others. Proverbs 15:4 says, Proverbs 15:4 "A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit." We can crush a person's heart when our words of truth have the wrong motive. 1 Corinthians 13:1 says, if I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, okay, like if I speak in a heavenly language, if I speak in the language of heaven but do not have love, I'm a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal." Meaning if you speak and you don't have love in your heart towards the person you're speaking to, you're just noise. You're noise and you're not helping the cause. So consider carefully how you speak. The world is bitter and divided already. And here's what I'd say to you Christians in the house. Some of you need to be reminded of this. You cannot expect the love to be given to you that Jesus expects you to give to others. I don't see enough pens writing that down. You need to be reminded of this in today's world. You cannot expect the love to be given to you that Jesus expects you to give to the world. We, in a lot of ways, our love that we give is a one-way street. Listen, you must have love in your heart, especially when your truth is going to be confronting to someone. If you don't have love in your heart towards the person you're speaking to, sit down, be quiet, and let a Christian with the love of Christ do the talking. I'm saying this because I want the kingdom to flourish in this world. Consider carefully how you speak. Church, if your angry, bitter tone is just matching the world's angry, bitter tone, then you are just as weak as the world is. And speaking the truth is not for the weak-willed. It's not for the faint of heart. It's for those who have the love of Christ dominating their heart. Did you hear that? Or did you just hear the plane going by? Devil's trying to distract you right now. I'm telling you, devil's trying to distract you right now. Speaking the truth is not for the weak-willed or the faint of heart. It's for those who have the love of Christ dominating their heart. Some of us just need time in the gospel before we think we can say something of meaning to the world. Truth, even when couched in immense love, truth will continue to be seen as hate speech. How, how, and why does it come to this? I wanna give you three reasons it can come to this. Truth and love is labeled hate speech when: It confronts the culture's prevailing narrative When it challenges a person's preferred sin When it corrodes a ruler's powerful control. Let's look at each of these and how they might be played out. 1. Truth and love is labeled hate speech when it confronts the culture's prevailing narrative. For those of us who are Americans in the house, you have to recognize the type of society that you're living in. You have to have an outside perspective to understand the type of society that you are living within. We do not live in an Eastern or traditional society. We live in a progressive society. And so when it comes to human identity and human sexuality, our culture wants to increasingly progress beyond what was as it seeks to normalize what was once taboo in the name of progress. From homosexuality to transgenderism to open marriages to whatever is next. We are a society that wants to progress away from the old norms. And yet when God's eternal truth comes on the scene, it's going to confront so much of this. And the message of God's good plan for humanity will increasingly be seen as hate speech because while God's plan is good for us, it's not affirming of the culture's prevailing narrative. So let's just dial in, that's what we're doing today. We're dialing in, let's zoom in, let's just talk about one of the hottest issues in our day. People's preferred pronouns among the transgender community. Christians in the house. The loving thing to do is not to scream the pronoun that reflects a person's sex, but we are to, with love in our hearts, explain to them why we as Christians, we must speak truth. And so we cannot ascribe to them something that God has not. And we do not mean to be rude or to offend. And if you do, then sit down and be quiet. We do not mean to be rude or to offend. We mean to speak the truth in love. That's the general principle. Easy for me to say behind a pulpit. A lot different when you're in front of a live human being. So here's what I'd say to you. They can either respect the true intention of our heart or, as what has happened throughout the ages, they can misinterpret our message and call us something we're not and label us as speaking hate. But we know that we are called to speak the truth in love, even when it confronts the culture's prevailing narrative, which leads to the second thing. 2. Truth in love is labeled hate speech when it challenges a person's preferred sin. The fact that Christianity has a morality of right and wrong beyond popular opinion, this will be challenging to people's sin, especially when it's a celebrated sin. Recently, I saw this guy do this experiment, and I was really fascinated by this. He was talking about how you can go online and justify anything. So what he did was he said he went to Google, and Google, in case you didn't know, Google is the great prophet of our day. We go to Google and ask Google the questions for life and all the big things. So Google's our prophet. So he went to the great prophet Google and he asked this great prophet, is drinking coffee good for you? And guess what he came up with? A whole host of websites showing the benefits of drinking coffee. And all God's people said, Amen. And then, and then he Googled is drinking coffee bad for you. And guess what? He came up with a whole host of websites showing how drinking coffee is bad for you. And we rebuke it in Jesus name. In our world, you can find people, professionals, and websites to justify whatever you want. Not just justify it, but support it and even celebrate it. But at the end of the day, I am telling you, the Word of God is what will be proven true. When all of our bones have turned to dust, the Word of God will remain. It will outlast everything else. But people love their sin. And again, in our world, you can find people, professionals and websites to not just justify what you want, not just support what you want, but celebrate what you want. And people and culture get so entrenched in this. I mean, so entrenched in this. And so when you bring God's eternal truth and it confronts a person's sin that they love so much, of course, they're gonna viscerally defend it and they'll find no shortage of people, professionals and websites online to affirm their sin. And in our world, anything less than full affirmation and acceptance will be seen as hate, no matter, no matter how lovingly you try to put it. Which leads to the last part: 3. Truth and love is labeled hate speech when it corrodes a ruler's powerful control. Listen to me, truth undermines those who are deceptive and so much power is attained and retained through deception and fear in our world. But the truth is, if you are an honest ruler or an honest leader, then truth will actually empower you because truth will give you the knowledge to do what's right. If you're a humble ruler or a humble leader then truth will cause you to apologize when you were mistaken. But when was the last time you saw a politician or a pastor apologize for when the truth exposed how they were wrong? The moral of the story is this: If the accusation of hate speech is leveled against you, it's either because you are speaking hatefully, at which point you need to check yourself and repent and conform to the leading of the Spirit. Or it's what we just talked about, that you're confronting the culture's narrative, you're challenging a person's sin, or you're corroding someone's authority. One of the great actions for those who follow Christ is that we are to speak the truth, but we are to speak the truth in love, which leads to our next thing. 2. Our approach is loving others. We are to speak the truth in love. Love is the great ethic for Christians. It's our motive. It's the way that we approach others. Love. God so loved us, we are to love others. Jesus said that the world watching us will know that we are his disciples by the, say it with me, love that we have for one another. The entire Old Testament law is fulfilled by our love for God and our love for others. The scriptures tell us that of faith, hope, and love, the greatest of those three is love. The Bible says that God is love, and yet we live in a world where it seems like culture owns the corner market on love, not the church. Why? Why? It's because love has been redefined by our world, away from what it truthfully is. What the world says is love is not what the Bible says is love. The world has redefined love. The world says love is love. And listen to me, when you give a circular definition to something, then you have no definition, which means you can use it however you want, which means there's no way to oppose it. And if it can mean whatever you want, then those who oppose it are whatever you want them to be, whether ignorant or archaic or hateful. The statement, love is love, is one of the great cultural narratives of our time. And so when we bring a greater reality to this world, when we say that God is love, that threatens the cultural narrative. And our culture's response is only to say, you're speaking hate speech. But again, our motive, church hear me on this, our motive for telling truth to a world opposed to it must be love. Because without love, the Bible says our words are just awful noise. And that goes for your social media posts too. We are to speak truth in love and to speak truth in love means we use our words to confront sin and evil, but we do this by pointing to Jesus because that's love. We point to the resurrection, we point to the forgiveness of sins, we point to the cross. You see, Christians, we are meant to be the light of the world. We are meant to bring the light in a dark world and we do this through our words, through our lives, through our demeanor. This is how we bring light to the world and we're meant to shine the light towards Jesus. So let's, let me do a demonstration here. We live in a dark world, so how are we to shine the light and how can we shine the light hatefully? And so I'm going to need a volunteer. Oh good, Bisham, you wanna come up? Thank you, brother. Can you guys welcome my friend Bisham up to the stage? So, Bisham is going to represent the lost and the dark world. And I'm going to represent a Christian bringing the light of Jesus. But to really just hammer the point home, let's just set the mood. Listen, the world, the world is a dark place. And because it's dark, people think they can do whatever they want whenever they want. But Christians, we bring the light. We're meant to bring the light through our words and through our actions, through our lives, through bearing the fruit of the Spirit. But what do we do with this light? This is what we're supposed to do. We come along, people, and we share the light. And what do we do? What do we ultimately do? We point to Jesus. We point to what He's done for us in His life, death, and resurrection. We bring the life of Christ through our lives, through our words. We bring the truth to a world in darkness. But here's what so often happens. Christians bring this truth, the light. We bring the truth and this is what we end up doing with people. Exactly! Well done. You're not done yet, get up here. Come here, come here. Exactly. People recoil from it. They reject it. They want to get away from it. When we take the light and we shine it in people's face and we call them sinners and we talk about how terrible they are and all the evil things are doing in the world. Exactly. People recoil from it. We're meant to point people to Jesus and then we let the Spirit do the rest in their hearts. All right now you can go. Everyone thanks. Give a round of applause for Bisham. We can shine the light in such a forceful way into people's lives that they recoil from it. We do this with our attitudes. We do this with our social media posts. Because I think here's what happens a lot of times in our world, because everyone has a platform now. We use social media to try to make a point. We're so sick of what's going on in this world, we just want to make a point so that people understand what they're doing. And all you're doing is pointing the light in their eyes and they're going to recoil from it. Don't be trying to make a point. Be trying to point people to Jesus and let the Spirit do the rest. And I'm not saying the light doesn't come upon people's sin and they need to reconcile with that. That is definitely going to happen. But that's not our intent. Our intent is to expose God's good plan for this world as we point people to Jesus. But the truth in love, the world will still hate it. But listen to me, this should be of no surprise to any Christian, why? Because Jesus Christ was the perfect example of truth in love and his culture crucified him. Christians, this is what happens when you bring truth to a world that is opposed to it. So what are we to do? When truth and love is still seen as hate speech, is the answer, is the answer to try to be more loving so that people are never offended? Is the answer to shy away from truth so that they only receive love as defined by them rather than by God? Listen, this past summer was so incredibly and it was unique for me. I got so many, so many contacts from people who were just trying to live out this tension and they didn't know how. Like whether it was Bud Light or Target or Disney, Christians see these companies promoting things that are so opposed to the Christian faith that people, that they can't affirm it. And so, so what, so what do they, so what I've heard, and time again, like so many times, if I had a dollar for every time someone reached out to me about this, I'd be able to retire right now. People said, what am I to do? Here was the essence of their question I heard time and time again. Christians were asking me, how do I take a stand and still be seen as loving? I'll say it again, they asked, how do I take a stand and still be seen as loving. And my response to this is like so many other responses. My response is this, finish the verse. "Speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ." To become more like Christ is our goal. It's to become more holy, that's what it means, to become more like Jesus. Yes, we are commanded by God to love God and to love our neighbor, but becoming more like Jesus is our aim. But too many of us think that our goal is to be seen as loving by the world. That's not the goal. Our aim is to become holy. 3. Our aim is becoming holy. And for those of you who have a cultural or a common notion of what holiness is, let me just clarify. Becoming holy is about being separate from the world. It's about being distinct. Holiness is about being set apart. That's what holiness actually means. To be known as holy is to be known as something other. We are not meant to fit in. In fact, if you fit in with the culture, that's like the opposite of holiness. When we are called to be holy, it's like God is separating us out and making us something different. And when the truth and love is no longer tolerated, we must be holy. So I'm going to tell you plainly, dear brothers and sisters, I'm going to tell you plainly, you cannot worry about whether or not the world will see you as loving. You just have to be loving as Christ was as we speak the truth in love. The first Christians were called atheists because all the world knew of worship was idol worship. But let me ask you, did Christians in response to that, did they build idols so that they could fit in with the culture? Did they? No, they didn't. See, the Romans worshiped, but they didn't know God. And yet we were the ones called atheists. And today, Christians are called hateful because the world doesn't truly know love. Church, we will be rejected by the world because we do not belong to the culture. We are to speak the truth and our response to this isn't to change our message. Church, hear me on this. The question is not, will others see me as being loving? The question is, as I speak the truth in love, will the world see me as being something distinct and unique? Someone who doesn't fit in because I am pointing to Jesus and I belong to Him. Because that's what it means to be holy. Listen to me, not that we're better, but that we're different. 1 Peter 4, 14 says, if you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed. Because the spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. Like the early Christians, we are going to be called things that are not true. And what's our response to this? To speak the truth in love as people who are growing in holiness, because we're ever becoming more like Jesus. Or as our verse says, we are to grow up in every way into Him, into Christ. People, I really hope that you would join us for the rest of the series as we zoom out and look at this calling in all of its fullness. And when those times of opposition come, how do we respond to those conversations? But remember, when truth and love is no longer tolerated, we must be holy. Amen. Church, we're going to sing about the holiness of God and His call on our lives to be holy. And so here's what I want you to do. Would you please stand? And I make no assumptions that every person in this house is a Christian, but for those of you who are, this is your chance right now to demonstrate to the watching world that you do not belong to them and you do that through worship. And so I'm gonna specifically challenge some men in the house who love the Lord. Would you lead the way for us in your voice and with raising your hands just to demonstrate both audibly and visually? You do not belong to this world, but you belong to our Holy God. Let's pray. Father, I come before you with this church, with these brothers and sisters, people who you have called holy, people that you have redeemed from the pit of hell, because of what your Son has done. And I pray, Father, in Jesus' name, Father, that we lift up praises because you are glorious, because you are holy, and you call us to be holy. So, Father, I pray because of what Jesus has done on the cross for us, because of his resurrection, that we would respond. And I'm just going to challenge the faithful in the house, that they would respond, not just in worship, but they would raise their hands, declaring for all to see that we belong to you.Father, we thank you for the cross. We thank you for the gospel. Father, we thank you for what you're doing in the church and in this world. We love you and we thank you. We love you and we thank you. We pray these things and we worship together in Jesus name and everyone said Amen. Church, let's worship together.

The Beauty of Friendship Sermon Series: Philemon Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: Philemon 21-25 Transcript These words today is the day that the Lord has made so let us rejoice and be glad in it and everyone said amen. And everyone said like they mean it. Yeah, see I knew I had you you had it in you all right, so today we're closing up a sermon series looking at friendship and we're on week three the final week and I Know what many of you are thinking? There's no way we can get through a sermon series on friendship without talking about what is possibly the greatest friendship ever depicted in literature. And that's the friendship, you know what I'm talking about, between Frodo and Samwise Gamgee. Right? Where's my fellow geeks at, right? Okay. For those of you who don't know, let me learn you something here. The greatest, I think, the greatest friendship in fiction literature is depicted between Frodo and Sam. I just think it's absolutely amusing, amazing. It comes from the story of the Lord of the Rings. That's a three-part book that was released some time ago, widely popular movies. How long ago were those movies? Don't tell me those like 20 years ago. Are you serious? I'm thinking about my life right now. 20 years ago? Wow. Okay. So, The Lord of the Rings, three-part movie, three-part book. It centers on this fellowship. Now, you guys probably know this, but let me just, for those who don't, what we have here is there's this friendship between the Frodo, between the hobbits, Frodo Baggins of the Shire and his friend Samwise Gamgee. Now they, they were part of a quest, a fellowship of nine that was tasked with traversing the known land of middle earth up and down through thick and thin to go to the wicked and terrible and evil land of Mordor where they were to destroy the one evil ring that they were to hide and carry throughout their journey. Now, near the end of the first book, this fellowship of nine begins to break apart. And Frodo, the littlest among them, realizes that he must go alone for the rest of the journey by himself on his adventure to destroy this evil ring. And so he sneaks away from the group, knowing that he's meant to go on his own. And his friend, Sam, realizes that he's sneaking off to go by himself. And so his friend, Sam, goes to chase him down. And just as Frodo is crossing the river to start the journey, the last part of the journey on his own, Sam calls out to him and wants to be with him. And calls out to him, and the movie's doing a phenomenal job of that scene, if you know what I'm talking about. But I wanna read to you from the book how the scene played out. So Sam goes after his friend Frodo who's trying to leave on his own. And Frodo said to Sam, but I am going to Mordor. I know that well enough, Mr. Frodo, said Sam. Of course you are, and I'm coming with you. Now Sam, said Frodo, don't hinder me. I must go at once. It's the only way. Of course it is, answered Sam, but not alone. I'm coming too. Of course if you know the story, their friendship is just played out in just beautiful and heroic ways. And here's the reality. We all need a friend like Sam. And we all need to be a friend like Sam. We need someone in our life who's going to stand by us no matter where life takes us. And that's kind of what we've been looking at in this sermon series as we've been walking through the book of Philemon. It's a short book we find in the New Testament. Today we're closing up a series looking at that letter, but specifically through the lens of the friendship that the Apostle Paul had who wrote the letter to his friend Philemon. Now if you've been with us through the series, you're probably sick of hearing about the context, but if you haven't been with us, you need to know what's going on behind the story. And so let me just take a step back and share the context. So important for everything that we look at in Scripture. And so if you haven't yet, turn in your Bibles to Philemon. There's only one chapter. We'll look at verses 21 to 25, but here's the context. Paul, who wrote the letter, had led this man Philemon to faith in Jesus. And this letter reveals a lot. But the letter really keys in on this other man named Onesimus. Now Onesimus was a bond servant of Philemon. Now a bond servant was like a slave. They were a slave, but we just don't like to use that term because when Americans hear that term, we think of something very different than what happened in the ancient world. We think of what happened in the 17 and 1800s here in America when we had a chattel race-based slavery that was absolutely demonic and horrendous and evil. Now the ancient world also had slavery. It wasn't exactly or always race-based. Now in the ancient world, when this letter was written, bond servants, some of them at times could even hold high-level jobs, and some of them could even work their way out of slavery. So it was a different setup. I'm not defending either system. Both are horrible, and the Christian faith ultimately corrodes each of them. But here's the story. So Onesimus was a bond servant, was a slave of Philemon, but Onesimus runs away from his master, and he runs to Paul. Paul's in prison at this point About 1,300 miles away in Rome so Onesimus runs away a runaway slave back in that day could have been killed on sight He runs away on this journey to go to see Paul Doesn't exactly say but it's easy to surmise that he probably went to see Paul hoping that Paul would grant him his freedom But while under Paul's care while Paul's in prison by the way, Paul leads Onesimus to a faith in Jesus. Now what's fascinating about this story, and when you read the book of Philemon, is that Paul is clear that he could command Philemon to release Onesimus and to grant him his freedom, but he doesn't. In fact, what he does is Paul, while he's in prison, he leads on this mess to faith in Jesus and then actually sends him back to Philemon with this letter that he's written. Now in this letter, Paul says to Philemon, I could command you to do what's right. You know what the right thing is to do, but I'm not going to command you to do this. I'm not going to make you, I'm not going to make myself a master to you and tell you what to do. I'm just going to remind you of the gospel and let that call you to do the right thing. You've got a faith in the gospel, so you need to follow and do what God has called you to do. He places the burden back on Philemon. It's an incredible story if you actually sit in what's happening here. Paul says, I could command you to go against the grain of the culture and you could just simply release Onesimus. I can command you to do that. But Paul says, I'd rather you do that out of your own faith and out of your own love for God. Paul says, I'd rather you do the right thing because you know it's the right thing, not because I told you to do it. Now you have to understand, you have to understand friends, Philemon was well within what was culturally appropriate if he wanted to keep on this mess as his slave file a man could have appealed to the world system he could have appealed to the culture at large for justification for keeping on this mess as his slave file a man could have tried to find some way to bridge his faith with what was culturally accepted and try to find some sort of middle ground is that what happens? Well, we're going to find out. But Paul, either way, is calling Philemon to a challenge. A challenge to his faith and a challenge to the culture they live in. But what we've been looking at is that Paul was able to bring this challenge to his friend Philemon because of the common faith they shared in Jesus Christ. Because they both believed in the gospel, because they were Christian brothers. And so, we're going to see how this letter actually closes up today. And so with that, would you hear God's word? Philemon verses 21 to 25. Would you hear God's word? Philemon 21-25 21 Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I say. 22 At the same time, prepare a guest room for me, for I am hoping that through your prayers I will be graciously given to you. 23 Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends greetings to you, 24 and so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, and Luke, my fellow workers. 25 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen, this is God's word, let's pray, and we'll continue. Let's pray. Father in heaven above, Lord by the power and the presence of your Holy Spirit, we would ask that you would be with us today as we close up this series looking at your Holy Word. Please Lord, would you help us to see and to be reminded of the power of good and godly friendships? And not only this, would you help us to find those friends? Would you help us to be that friend? And Father, we do pray these things for your glory and for our good and it's in Jesus name to pray these things and everyone said, amen. Amen. So church, if I give you one thing for you to mull over on this day, as we look at this passage, it would be this. The beauty of friendship is found in how much it embodies the gospel. The beauty of friendship is found in how much it embodies the gospel. Now I'm sure you probably know, and maybe we'll see here today, that there may be some friendships that unwittingly, unknowingly have similarities to the gospel. They're just not maybe rooted in the gospel. But I'm hoping that as we see this play out in our passage, that you will find friendships rooted in the gospel. Because when you do, then you'll be able to see some of the beautiful things about friendship that our passage points out. And here's what we're going to be looking at today. The beauty of friendship is that it makes the world a better place, like the gospel. Second thing we'll look at is the beauty of friendship is that it reminds us that we're not alone, like the gospel. And third thing we'll look at here this morning is that the beauty of friendship is that it brings us someone who cares for us spiritually, say it with me now, like the gospel. The beauty of friendship is... that it makes the world a better place, like the gospel that it reminds us that we're not alone, like the gospel that it brings us someone who cares for us spiritually, like the gospel 1. The beauty of friendship is that it makes the world a better place. So let's jump right into it. The beauty of friendship is that it makes the world a better place. Please keep your Bibles open in front of you. Let's look at verse 21 together. It says, Paul writes and says this, he says, Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I say. Okay, so the goodness of good friendships, I'm telling you, will spill out into the world. The goodness of good friendships will spill into the world and they will make the world a better place. This is the difference between friendships and cliques. Let's talk about this for a second here. See what cliques do, and it's such human nature to get into cliques, but cliques, what they do is they exclude other people. And then they make you feel bad about not being part of that little group. But a friendship, a friendship is something that is not only to be admired, but friendships make the world a better place. I'm sure you probably guessed that as a youth pastor, I saw this time and time again. You have youth group and youth group gathers. Some kids in They circle up and they form a click. And no one can get in to that little circle because it's inward focused. But every now and again, you get a group of friends and Jesus was at the center. And when Jesus is at the center, he makes you turn around and look outward. He looks, makes you look out to those who are lost and by themselves and to bring them in. And every now and again, that youth group, you'd have a group of friends who weren't inward focused, but they would have eyes to see who was excluded, who was lonely, and they would embrace them and bring them in. That's what a good friendship does. It looks to bring others in. In our passage, in our Bible passage, Paul is saying, he's essentially saying to his friend Philemon, he says, I know that you will free Onesimus. I know that you will do the right thing, but not only this, but I know the blessing that you'll give to Onesimus will expand beyond him. Did you see this in our passage? Paul says to Philemon, look at this key phrase here, you will do even more. What Paul is laying on thick for Philemon to do, Paul even goes on, he doubles down and says, you will do even more than this. Paul knew this about his friend. Church, I could point out to some great friendships that impacted the world. I could point to J.R.R. Tolkien and his friendship with C.S. Lewis or Mark Twain and Nikola Tesla. We could talk about Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton. We could talk about Doc Holliday and Wyatt Earp. We could talk about the Winter Soldier and Captain America. Or we could continue to talk about Frodo and Samwise. And while there have been some great friendships that had massive impact on the world, we don't need to look elsewhere. What we see is a friendship before us that has changed the world throughout the generations. What we have in this passage is a friendship that made the world a better place because God in his infinite wisdom Recorded and kept alive this this letter between Paul and Philemon which has gone on to echo through the ages showing each new generation the beauty of the gospel and the beauty of friendship. The question I think we need to ask ourselves is kind of the obvious question here is - Did Philemon actually release on this. Well, the truth is we don't actually know. The Bible doesn't say there's not really clues elsewhere in Scripture to point to this. Although I'll just say this for my my own thoughts. I will say that the fact that this story is in the Bible is proof enough for me that not only did Philemon release on this, but Philemon did go on to do other amazing things for the kingdom. And actually, if you follow some strains of Christian history and Christian tradition, one Christian tradition says that Onesimus was in fact freed, and not only that, but he went on to be a leader in the early church. See, Paul and Philemon's friendship goes to show us the power of the gospel and how it creates godly friends who go on to do more good in this world. Gospel good. And if you have a good friend, you know that they will make you a better person. Otherwise, are they really a good friend? As opposed to maybe just a good acquaintance? Yes, I have friends and connections who are not Christians, but my closest friends are the ones who are gonna draw me closer to Christ. Not to the exclusion of other people, but I'd say rather to their benefit. Because the more Christ-like I am, when I surround myself with Christ-like men who make me more Christ-like, that's a better friend I will be, that's a greater impact I'll have on the world. And just as an aside, I have a friend who is not a follower of Jesus, and I'm sharing the gospel with him, and I'll just ask you to pray for H, if you don't mind, in my conversations with him. But the beauty of godly friendships is that they make the world a better place, just like the gospel does. The gospel makes the world a better place when Christians get out there, open our mouths, and actually share it. The gospel is that Jesus Christ laid down his life for his friends, so that we would have an example to follow. Do you remember, like, for those of you who went to Sunday school growing up, do you remember this, that story, very famous story in the Bible where Jesus actually gets down on his hands and knees and washes the feet of his disciples, of his friends? You guys know that story? Remember what he said afterwards? Remember what he said? I love this. John 13, verse 15, Jesus says this, after he gets on his hands and knees, the God of all creation bends down, gets his hands dirty, washes the feet, the stinking dirty feet of his friends, he washes their feet, and then he gets up and he says this, he says, I have given you an example that you also should do just as I have done for you. John 13:15 15 For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you. This begs the question, Christians in the house, have you ever washed another person's feet? Not symbolically, I mean actually. For those of you who follow Jesus, have you ever washed another person's feet? I will tell you now, I have, and it is an incredibly humbling experience. The more humble you are, the more Christ-like you are. If Jesus did it, we should do it. If you've offended someone, wash their feet. If you love someone, wash their feet. I don't think Jesus was kidding when he actually did that and then got up and told us to do the same. Yes, symbolically do that, of course, but I think we actually have to do it. It's a beautiful thing that our Lord has done. I think we should do the same. This reminds us that the beauty of friendship is that it makes the world a better place when people are humbled and love one another. It makes the world a better place just like the gospel. Because the Bible here, let me tell you, the scriptures, the gospel does not just tell us to do the right thing. It does not just tell us to do the good thing. The gospel tells us to do the godly thing. And that is different than the world's approach. We're called to do the godly thing. The second thing is that the beauty of friendship is that it reminds us that we're not alone. 2. The beauty of friendship is that it reminds us that we're not alone. Like the gospel, Paul goes on to write, please look in your Bibles at verse 22, 22 to 24. Paul writes this. He says at the same time, prepare a guest room for me for. I'm hoping that through your prayers, I will be graciously given to you. Epaphras, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends his greetings. And so do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, and Luke, my fellow workers." You see here, I love this, Paul talks about his friend group. Paul talks about his posse. Paul's talking about his squad here. And what's he called them fellow workers. They are co-labors for the kingdom. They do mission together. We've talked about this here. You want to, you want to have a friendship forged in the gospel, serve together, go on mission together, lead a high school Bible study together. You will see amazing thing happen when you are fellow workers for God's kingdom. Ministry doing ministry together has a way to bind us together that playing sports and video games could never do. This is why I think making and having friends at church is such a value and such a benefit to our lives. Not only do we get to sit on the same preaching and process it together, we get to worship together and we get to serve together. Because having friends in the church community gives us a constant, a weekly reminder that we're not alone. I get it. We're busy people. We're doing everything all the time. How often do you get together with friends? Well, when you're part of a church community and you have friends at church, you're getting together at least once a week. And I think that's a beautiful thing. I happen to think there's great value in seeing people at church and this notion that we quote only see people at church. For me, that does not diminish friendship. Rather, it raises it. It makes a value for going to church and have it part of our life. I've said it before, we know, we know the church is not this building. This building is where the church meets. We fully recognize that. And also God has given us this place here at 6950 Cherry Valley and when you walk into this place and see these people, yes, we want it to feel like home. We want when you walk in, no matter what your life was like the week before, we want this to feel like you can kind of unload. This is a place to be encouraged and loved, challenged, yes, but be reminded of the power of the gospel to overcome. We want you to have family here. We want you to have friends here. Friends in our church community gives us a constant, at least a weekly reminder that we're not alone, and we're not alone just like the gospel reminds us and the gospel is that Jesus Christ died for our sins and in the greatest miracle there ever was Jesus Christ rose again from the grave and for 40 days after that he continued to minister with his friends and he continued to fellowship with them and one of the things he was doing during those 40 days is he was preparing them for a continued mission after he himself returned to heaven and right before Jesus returned to heaven, he said this to his friends. He said, go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. What did Jesus just do here? He just told them to do ministry together. He just told them to go on mission together. Why? Well, because we're going to see people come to Jesus. But I think also in some some way underneath, he's also saying, because that's how you'll stay together. That's how you'll continue to be united when you're united around the gospel. And then Jesus says this last thing recorded in the epic gospel of Matthew. It brings me to tears every time I read this. And then Jesus says this, he says, and behold, I am with you always to the very end of the age because our Savior doesn't leave us. He stays with us. We are never alone. This is the gospel that Jesus saves us and he never leaves us. Just like God promised way back in the Old Testament. Go back to Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy 31 says, it's the Lord who goes before you and He will be with you. He will not leave you or forsake you. Do not be, do not, do not fear or be dismayed. The beauty of friendship is that it reminds us that we're never alone, just like the gospel does. 3. The beauty of friendship is that it brings us someone who cares for us spiritually like like the gospel. And finally, the beauty of friendship is that it brings us someone who cares for us spiritually like like the gospel. And then we're going to look at the very last verse, as we've been journeying through this passage together, this whole book together, the last verse, this is how Paul closes it, he says this, the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirits. We've been using this as our benediction, we will again today, but let's look at it real quick. Grace, Lord Jesus Christ, your spirit. Firstly, grace. If you are a follower of Jesus, you better have the definition of grace on the tip of your tongue because it is the essence of your salvation. What is grace? Grace is how we are saved. Grace is getting what we do not deserve. You want to know what you deserve? You deserve condemnation. You deserve separation. You deserve eternal damnation for the sins we've committed against an internally holy God. But for those who follow Jesus, that's not because we deserve it, we definitely don't. It's because God is infinitely good and in his mercy and in his justice, he poured out his wrath upon his son, not upon us, who took our place on the cross so that our penalty could be paid for. And then, when we place our faith in Jesus, God, even though he does not have to, even though we do not deserve it, God gives us grace and welcomes us to His table and into our heavenly home to be with Him. Grace is how we are saved. We are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus. When you place your faith in Jesus, that doesn't earn you salvation. It's through grace that we are given it, and it's through the Lord Jesus who stands in the gap who takes our punishment the punishment we deserve to give us the salvation that we don't deserve and that's called grace grace is at the core of the gospel and it's through Jesus so Paul is saying to Philemon and by extension the Holy Spirit saying to us through this word this last line the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, be with your spirits. Church, don't read past your Bible. Read every word. Here's what Paul's saying here. Your spirit is your core being, it's your essence. Meaning the grace that we find only through Jesus needs to totally encapsulate us. It totally envelops our entire spirit, inside and out. Everything about us needs to be about grace. Grace be with your spirit. Not the grace of the Lord Jesus be with you when you're feeling down. Not the grace of the Lord Jesus be with you when you decide to show up for church. Not the grace of the Lord Jesus be with you when you're feeling good about yourself, the grace of the Lord Jesus be with your spirits. It is who you are all the time. You are ever being reminded that every breath you take is an act of grace of God who does not have to give it to you. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with your spirit. It is your identity. It's who you are. It's everything about you all the time. Today we're going to celebrate communion. Communion is a physical reenactment of a spiritual truth that is found only in the gospel, that as we eat the bread and drink the cup, we are receiving into our physical bodies a representation of what has happened truly spiritually. And it's this, the grace of the Lord Jesus is with our spirit. When you enact this out physically, understand the amazing spiritual thing that is happening as you sit at the table of the King. And our hope and our encouragement in all this is found in the friend we have in Jesus. So what about our friends? Well, as you know, in each message in this series, we've been ending with a friendship challenge. And so let me give you the last one for this series, and it's this. In an unfriendly world, look to the gospel to find and be a true friend. My prayer is that you have friendships forged by a common faith in the gospel, in Christ Jesus, as we embrace his message together. Friends that encourage your spirit with the grace that's only found through Christ. And I really hope that this church is a place where you can find those friendships. And so I wanna leave you with four things to challenge you on finding friends at church. So making friends in the gospel. 1. Consider Membership Number one, here's what I'd say. Consider membership. If you've been attending peace for a while, make a commitment. In fact, we have membership classes starting next week. You can go to our website, you can go to our welcome booth, Talk with Chelsea, and get some information. Because here's the thing, if you become a member, we want you to know what you're signing up for. So come to our membership class. You can find out more about our philosophy and theology of a church, ask some good questions. Just because you take a membership doesn't mean you have to become a member. But let me just step back and say this, before some of you consider membership, maybe what some of you need to consider is regular, consistent church attendance. Mmm, I heard that. Did you know in our day and age that when people fill out surveys, do you know what qualifies as regular church attendance nowadays? Once a month. You go to church once a month, you're considered a regular church attender. That's pathetic. That's pathetic. Don't sink to that level. Do not sink to that level. I guarantee your faith and the world needs much more than that. So consider regular church attendance or if you're already there I'd say consider membership. Again, we have classes starting next week. I'd love for you to join it. Just find out more about who we are, some of our theological distinctives. 2. Start Serving Second thing, start serving. If you are a Christian, God has given you a gift to use to build his church, to build his kingdom. If you're not using it, try to justify that one before God. If you are a Christian, you are meant to be serving. Because if you are a Christian, the Bible says that the Holy Spirit's given you a gift to be used in service of the common good for one another. So again, let's talk about where you could possibly start serving. Because again, serving together is a great way to forge friendships, especially in our larger setting. 3. Join a Community Group Next, join a community group. These are smaller groups that meet off campus throughout the week, throughout the month. Great way to deepen friendships and connections. Again, you can talk with Chelsea at the Welcome Booth or we've made things really easy for you. You can go to our website, go to peacechurch.cc/connect . Fill out some just real basic information, then we will follow up with you and help you figure out how to take the next step. But here's the thing, I've said this before, we're not a cult, we're not going to make you do anything, but we're going to invite you to do something awesome. And so let me leave you with one more. I said four, there's three up there, let me give you one more. Making friends in the gospel, when you come to church, let's end with this, simply start talking to people. 4. Start talking to people at church A lot of you are real critical of the next generation because they only want to text. Do you talk to people? So guess what we're gonna do now? Y'all got name tags? Who's the rebels in here that put the name tag on the left side of their chest? I just, okay. Oh, a few of you. Okay. So here's what we're gonna do. Hold on, hold on. I ain't giving you permission yet. We are gonna end our time in communion. We're gonna end our time in communion, but here's what we're gonna do. You're gonna talk to those around you. I'm gonna give you a question to start with. Everyone needs to ask this question so no one's embarrassed. How long you been coming to peace? And here's the thing, you don't get to sit down for that. Let's all stand up. Let's all stand up. Take a few moments and talk with people around you.

PODCAST That's a Good Question Baptism, Homosexuality, and More: Examining Secondary Issues December 12, 2023 Jon Delger & Cheyenne Werner Listen to this Episode Jon Hey everyone, welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church. This is a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm Jon, I serve as a pastor at Peace Church and I also get to serve as the weekly host of this show. You can always submit questions to peacechurch.cc/questions . We'd love to hear those questions and we're excited to answer some today. Today I am here with Cheyenne. Cheyenne Hello. Jon Cheyenne is our Women's Ministry Director here at Peace Church, does an awesome job of leading and teaching that ministry and excited to get to talk about some fun topics today. Cheyenne I'm excited to be here. Jon Producer Mitchell, do you have a question for us today? Mitchell Yep, here we go. Mitchell How hard should Christians fight for secondary and non-salvation issues when it comes to someone's salvation or even church unity, such as a stance on homosexuality, ordaining women or evolution or things like that? How hard should Christians fight for secondary and non-salvation issues when it comes to someone's salvation or even church unity, such as a stance on homosexuality, ordaining women or evolution or things like that? Jon Yeah, great question. So I think we have to take that in a couple of pieces. So they bring up that there is this idea of secondary issues. So there's some secondary issues in the church and in theology. So let's maybe start by talking about what the secondary issues are versus first issues. Cheyenne Sure. So first issues, I think they, in the question, already defined it has to do with salvation. Yeah. Beyond that, I mean, it's the essential, right, doctrines that make you a believer or not a believer. So, and then secondary would be still matters of urgent importance that don't necessarily make you saved or unsaved, but that definitely have to do with your sanctification, with our sanctification and walking in holiness and obedience to the Lord has to do with our Bible literacy and how we're reading and interpreting scripture, which can have an effect on all different areas of church life and of our own faith, right? I guess that's where I first go as far as dividing first and second issues. Is that how you would also break it down? Jon Totally. So first issues are things that, that's what makes you a Christian or not a Christian, right? So belief in the gospel, was Jesus the son of God? Did he die on a cross for our sins? Do you have to have faith to be saved? Do you believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as God? Some of those things are things that have just always defined somebody as a Christian or not a Christian. That's kind of first issues thing. And so I think the person asking the question, if I remember right, some of the topics they said I think are rightly categorized as not first issues. You can be a saved, born-again Christian and fall on what you and I might call the wrong side of those issues. But we're not saying you're not a Christian, but we would say that you're maybe not following parts of scripture quite properly. Now, I want to also jump in and say, unfortunately, I've had a lot of people come to me over the years and say, well, Pastor Jon, that's a secondary issue. You know, we shouldn't talk about that. That's not a big deal. And what I want to say is I would call that like biblical minimalism. And that's not what we want. So It's true that somebody can believe the wrong thing about some of these topics and still be a saved Christian We can call them brothers and sisters in Christ and yet our goal isn't to just follow like the minimum of what we can believe From scripture. We want to follow the maximum of what the Bible tells us Mitchell Well the way that I've always heard it was that there's heresy and there's error right when you're on the wrong side of these things, both of them are bad, but one of them is you're no longer a Christian, right? So error is still not good, right? Going along your same idea, we're not going for the minimum, but yeah. Cheyenne So part of what you're saying too is that there's more than two categories even, right? That there's maybe even more of a spectrum somewhat, but that the secondary issues are still that side of the spectrum is worth contending for. And contending for not just so that we're right, but really it's also contending for so that we're not putting ourselves in danger because it has to do with life and godliness. Jon What the Bible says is not just true, but it's good for us. Cheyenne Yes, right, right. And so that is, I think, why it is important to contend for these secondary issues like what were mentioned. So I don't remember, did you specifically name what those issues were that you had in this question? That they rounded up? Jon The listener question did. Mitchell Yep, so they mentioned homosexuality, women in ministry, or ordaining women, evolution, things like that is what they said. Jon So, shall we jump into one of those? Sure. So Cheyenne, I feel like this is a great conversation for us to have. Let's talk about women who serve, lead, or teach in ministry. I don't know if you want me to start or if you want to jump into that, but here at Peace Church, we look at the Bible and we look at passages like Ephesians 4 and 1st Timothy 2 and the beginning of Genesis and other places all throughout scripture, we see this as a not just a couple of texts, but Genesis through Revelation, the picture that scripture paints of men and women that we are equal in value. We're both made in God's image and yet we are distinct in role. God has made men and women different and he's given us different roles in the home and in the church. And so people have different perspectives on that, but that's where we come down. And so that plays out in a few different ways in how we do church also. We believe that women absolutely have the gifts of leading and teaching. And yet we think scripture does speak to where those gifts should play out, how that plays out in relationship to adult men in specific. And so, for example, for us at Peace Church, we would say that the role of pastor and elder is something that God has called men uniquely to. Preaching on a Sunday morning. We'd say that's something that God's called men uniquely to and yet Cheyenne you have an amazing gift and ministry of doing leadership and teaching in our church. Do you want to just talk about your thoughts on that? Cheyenne Yeah. So I mean, I think that men and women are both gifted with the spiritual gifts, which includes teaching and includes leadership and administration. But like you said, there's a created order both for marriages and for the church leadership. And so it's modeled, you know, it's modeled both ways for each other of what that order is. So it doesn't mean that as a woman, I can't use my gifts for teaching or for leadership or that other women in the church shouldn't use theirs. It just means we want to find the right ways to be using those. And so we use those in women's ministry, women teaching women, Titus talks about that, that the older women, and doesn't just mean by age older, but the more mature women who are spiritually more knowledgeable, maybe should be using their gifts to teach and mentor the younger ones. I think a lot of times in churches, it becomes a lot of focus on the negative of what women can't do and how restrictive that is. But we're not making like, we're not making this up just to create a, I don't know, a macho boys club here, right? It's about believing what the Bible says. And like you said, like we were even saying before, as we were talking about secondary issues, it's about believing that the Bible does have what's best in mind for us. So... Jon Right. I've said before that, like, especially when I was in seminary, it would have been easier, it would have been more popular to be on the other side of this issue, but that's not what we do it for. We do it because we look at the Bible and we're trying to be obedient to the scriptures. So, we have what we believe that the Bible clearly teaches as truth. This is God's design for us. We would say that's what's good for us. Personally, as a pastor, I've served in two other denominations where we had, I worked with fellow pastors who were on the other side of this issue who believe differently. And like we've been saying, I would say that they are saved Christians. They believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. You know, he was the son of God. He died for their sins. He rose again. They believe those things. They were saved. And yet, I'd say they were living in disobedience to scripture on this issue. Yeah, that was you would say about that. Cheyenne Yeah, yeah, I would, I would agree with that. There, you know, not every church probably has the opportunities that we do have here for peace. But, I don't know, as a women's ministry director, that's something that I'm really passionate about is trying to create spaces where women can, can use their gifts so that it doesn't feel like they're being excluded from anything. There's, there's all kinds of opportunities for women to use their gifts and teaching and I would hope that that would be something that all churches are looking to and pouring time into also. Yeah Jon So I think to one part of the question was how hard should we fight? Is that right? How should how hard should we fight about an issue like this? Yeah, I was just gonna ask, you know Imagine there's a woman in a congregation in a church situation who says I feel called to this, what would be our response? How hard would we fight against that? Or would we just say, oh, no, let's let this happen? So a woman who feels called to be an elder, maybe, say. Cheyenne OK, well, I think that if we are believing that the Bible says the elders should be men, then I think we should stick to that, not compromising that. Because what does that say about, what does that say about our hermeneutics? What does that say about our belief in the Bible if we let go of that? Now, is it wrong for someone to go to a church where not everybody agrees on that? I don't know, Bob. I don't know. What would you say, Jon? Jon I think that sometimes in certain communities, you might not have as many opportunities or as many options and have to make some concessions as to what church you're going to be a part of and some of the theological beliefs that they take on secondary issues, right? Right. And you're never, I think it's pretty much true that almost no two Christians are ever going to agree 100% on every issue So you do have to choose there are there are issues that you have to be okay with hey We don't see this eye to eye and that's okay Um, there's some that you shouldn't be okay with but you do have to be okay with some so now honestly here at peace we are very Clear about where we're at on important issues. We teach them in our membership class. We do share with people Hey, this is where we're at on this. That's not changing because it's what the Bible says. And so if you're not comfortable with that or if you can't joyfully follow leaders that lead this way, then you really shouldn't be a member of this church. So we say that and we mean that very seriously. Now, like you said, there are some places that maybe just don't have church options that believe the biblical thing on this. So yeah, I mean, I've been a Christian in churches that don't believe the right things on this. Yeah. And so you can do that and you try to lovingly, joyfully submit to the leaders above you and yet also try to share truth wherever you have the opportunity. And so, so yeah, I think you absolutely can do that. It's not ideal. You know, if you have a different choice, that's great. It's definitely not ideal. Cheyenne Yeah. And what would you say are like some of the dangers of compromising on this kind of issue when you're in a situation like that? Jon I think the dangers are, number one, you're drifting away from God's good design. And I think we can't always see all of the negative results of that. I think usually at first you think, wow, I'm just bending a little bit, right? I'm just bending a little bit and it'll be fine. It'll be okay. And you don't notice the consequences right away. But I think over, and we could talk a long time, I think, about some of the effects of egalitarianism on the church at large over the last 50 years, especially. But yeah, I think that's the thing is when you start to bend away from God's good design, it does have consequences, even if you don't realize it just yet. And so I've had this experience before. So a woman comes to me and says, I feel called to preach on a Sunday morning. Now, first of all, no matter what gender you are, if you come and say that to me, I'm going to say, well, you know what, there's some discernment that needs to happen here. We need to there's some maybe some training that needs to happen. It doesn't matter your gender or your age. If you come to me and say you think you should be preaching on Sunday morning, I've got some other questions and things we're going to talk about. But if, but specifically, if a woman says, I feel called to the world elder, or I feel called to teach in a group of men and women together, then I'm going to say, hey, you know what, I would love to sit down with you and talk about a couple of Bible passages. I'd love to do some Bible study with you. I'd love to connect you to some other women in our church who would love to kind of explain and think through what the Bible says about this and where some awesome opportunities to do ministry is. If you are gifted and called to teach or to lead, then great. There are places for you to use those gifts, but it might not be these first couple places that you're thinking of. Cheyenne I feel like, okay, one of the words that I heard you say a lot and that we've been saying a lot is calling. And I feel like a lot of time that word gets used when it comes to things like secondary issues and as a way of trumping what the Bible says and being able to kind of manipulate the interpretation to say, oh, well, this was cultural. I feel called to this. And I mean, this could be a whole nother podcast episode about calling. But where does that come from? That can be so subjective. You could say you're called to anything. And that's not necessarily true. We're called to something objective, and that is to live for Christ and to believe that what he says is true, that it trumps our feelings, even if those feelings might be tied to some kind of faith or spiritual moment or impression that we have. And so I think we got to be careful about that and letting the calling direct how we're interpreting these doctrinal issues. Jon Yeah, there are some, the Bible uses the word calling, there are some objective callings, but then there's also like the subjective sense of, you know, for example, I believe I'm called to be a pastor. So that is a sort of subjective, I don't have a chapter and verse that says Jon is called to be a pastor. It's kind of a subjective thing. It also won't go against Scripture. Correct. Yes. So our subjective calling can never be against what Scripture says. And then also there's some discernment process even beyond that, using Scripture, but then also friends, family, people who know you well, your pastors, your elders, to help you think through a calling. I remember actually I've one time had a young guy come to me and he was in Bible college at the time and he said to me, he said, Jon, I believe I am called to speak to really large crowds of people. I remember saying, interesting. I've heard you teach before. I actually think that you do have the gift of teaching this whole idea of large crowds. And he was saying, I mean, I think he's explicitly said like hundreds of thousands of people. And I said, well, maybe. And that's awesome. The Lord might do that through you. But I don't know. Let's wait and see. You know, why don't you use the teaching that you've got? But that's where calling gets kind of subjective. And it's more like, well, let's wait and discerning and be see. But the most important thing, like you just said, is your subjective calling can never go against what scripture objectively says. Mitchell So can I ask a question? Teeing up off of that? So what's the difference between something like women's ordination and then something like homosexuality? Would we put those in different tiers? How would we address those things? Cheyenne I would put them in different tiers. I think women's ordination is one where there's a little bit more leeway on that one. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be complementarian, but if I was in a community where my only choices were egalitarian churches, I think that I could faithfully be a part of a congregation that believed that. Now, when it comes to homosexuality, I don't. I think that that's a hard line that we draw and that we contend for because that is, you know, you want to give the most priority to the most clarity and the most urgency that Scripture gives it. And Scripture has a lot of pretty, pretty clear, pretty explicit and dangerous, like words of warning when it comes to homosexuality. And we love all of our neighbors, right? No matter what gender identity they would like to choose, no matter what sexual orientation they feel they have. But when it comes to how we are, what we are believing about them as a person, because it comes down to personhood, right? That's an essential doctrine. Jon Well, yeah, and I think it goes to an X, I think the homosexuality issue takes it to a next level because you're explicitly calling not sin what the Bible calls sin. I think that takes things to a different level. You're telling somebody, and just to lay it out, actually, I want to back up and just name a couple of things. So we used a couple of, I think they're probably 10-letter words. So complementarian, by the way, that word means, believes that men and women are complementary to each other. They have complementary skills and abilities and things. So equal in value, distinct in role is usually what that word complementarianism means. We use that real quickly. Egalitarianism is the opposite of that, believing that men and women are essentially interchangeable, that they not only are equal in value, but also equal in role, that there is no distinction in their roles. But to jump back to the homosexuality issue, so let's, let me just kind of fill in some gaps of what we would say the Bible clearly teaches is that homosexual behavior is sin. There are people who live in our world that have same-sex attraction and will have to battle with that throughout the course of their life. So we're not saying that to have certain feelings, to have certain attractions, doesn't make you in a state of perpetual sin that you can never be saved from or anything like that. You have a choice. If you are same-sex attracted, then you get to choose, am I going to live a homosexual lifestyle that the Bible calls sin, or am I going to live a different lifestyle, whether that be celibacy or heterosexuality, that the Bible endorses, embraces? Yeah, so that's kind of just to give a sense of where we're at. And so, yeah, like we're saying, that's a different tier level issue because you're calling sin not sin. The Bible has some pretty strong words about that. Cheyenne And even going as far, you know, with homosexuality and gender identity too, you're also saying that God's design, that his created design for personhood is not correct. And so it's a much bigger, much deeper issue there. But I like what you were saying, too, about just how it relates to whether a person can be redeemed, can be saved, whether they're... So we've talked about some things that the Bible seems to be pretty clear on. What about baptism? Jon That's a great one. I'll start, if that's okay. Yeah, that's fine. So, I'm, as a pastor at Peace Church, we believe in infant baptism. We believe that God has a covenantal design for the family and that babies should be baptized as a part of the covenant family. But I went to a Baptist seminary, and actually, I was baptized as an adult, not a kid. I would say I was Baptist for most of my life, even though I was going to reform churches, probably not most of my life anymore, but up to a certain point, I know, right? Up to a certain point, I was baptistic in my thinking. I thought adult baptism was the only way to go, that babies shouldn't be baptized. Now I'm on the opposite side of that. So just to give you some background, I would say I have probably more Baptist friends than I do infant baptism friends. So just to kind of paint a picture of where I'm at. So I would say that baptism is a much lower down issue. I'd call that third or fourth tier issue. I'd say that there are Christians who are faithful to the Bible on both sides of that issue. I have a very clear sense of what I think the Bible teaches about this, but I also see where the Bible is not as clear as I think it is on these other issues we've talked about as it is about baptism. Cheyenne Yeah, I agree. I, because I both have really strong arguments. It can be, I think that there's a faithful way to read scripture both ways, even though I do fall on one side of it. I was gonna say. I was just gonna say also with baptism, I do think that one of the things with baptism that we just need to hold as important as making God big. And so I think that that is just the one risk there that I think that there is with adult adult baptism is a tendency to make it about us and not to make it about God. But I would agree with you that it's a third or fourth tier issue. So a little story if you don't want to, you don't want to use this, you don't have to, but my little story. So my husband is a fourth grade teacher and they always raise salmon in the classroom. They grow them from eggs. And so they get to like get the eggs in DNR and see the eggs hatch and then see these little salmon grow from. Jon No way, that's awesome. Cheyenne I know. Well, last year, they had one salmon that grew with a weirdly deformed head, and the kids called him Chomper because he had a major overbite and looked a little interesting. One day, one of the kids was like, they're eating Chomper. And my husband was like, no, one of the things about salmon is they are herbivores, that they don't eat meat at all. And so he went over to look up and sure enough, the salmon were eating chomper. And so they were literally biting his head off. The reason that I bring this up is because when it comes to these issues, we can sometimes contend for the faith in a way that we're biting each other's heads off. What a great, great way to make that point. And I just think that we still need to have grace with people. Galatians 5, 13 through 15 says, For you were called to freedom, brothers and sisters, only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. Jon What a great analogy. Cheyenne Think about Chopper. I like that. Jon That's a great way to conclude. We want to hold to the truth with lots of passion and zeal, and yet we also want to passionately love our brothers and sisters in Christ. And so we've got to, it's truth in love, right? That's the Christian life. We're supposed to have truth in love, and both of those things are critical and important. Awesome. Hey, thanks so much for being here, Cheyenne. Cheyenne Thanks for having me. Jon Thanks, everybody, for listening. If you have questions, always peacechurch.cc/questions . Have a great week.