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How to Surrender Control and Trust God with Your Child’s Salvation Christian Life Shannon Popkin Author & Podcast Host Live Like It's True Podcast Published On: When my kids were little, I wasn’t the mom who insisted on bike helmets and sunscreen. I fed my kids plenty of junk food and let them loose on our trampoline, which had no net. While I didn’t obsess over their health and safety, there was one concern that kept me up at night: my kids’ salvation. I didn’t worry about undertows, kidnapping, and allergic reactions; I worried about the words of Jesus who said, “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell” ( Matt. 10:28 ). Nothing terrified me more than the thought of one of my kids traipsing down the wide path that leads to destruction. I wanted each of them to choose the narrow path that leads to life ( Matt. 7:13 )! But unfortunately, I thought it was my job to get them there. My kids still vividly remember the day I demonstrated the discomfort of hell using a candle. I had gathered them for Bible time and was talking somberly about their need for salvation—which was not out of the ordinary. But this time as I talked about sin, Jesus, and the cross, Cade (who was four at the time) was being silly and playing with our dog, Theo. In frustration, I turned out the lights, lit a candle, and held Cade’s chubby hand over the flame until it grew uncomfortably hot. As you can imagine, I succeeded in getting everyone’s attention. I talked forcefully about hell’s lake of fire and outer darkness and gnashing of teeth ( Rev. 19:20 ; Luke 13:28 ). My kids also claim that I called Theo a “messenger of Satan” who was distracting them from truth ( 2 Cor. 12:7 ). All of this made quite an impression, but not the one I was going for. My kids thought I was crazy! They were more scared of me than of hell. Theo just wagged his tail. I promise you that I’m not completely crazy. My kids survived, and thankfully—in spite of the candle event and others like it—they each love Jesus and follow Him. But perhaps you’re wondering what might possibly prompt a mom of littles to turn off the lights and hold her preschooler’s hand over an open flame? I know what. Fear. Anger. But most of all a desire for control. Craving Control With the candle casting a dramatic glow to my face, I realized that I was driven by fear. Fear that they wouldn’t listen. Fear that they might not respond. Fear that I wouldn’t be able to persuade them. And I was also aware of my anger. Anger over the dog distracting them. Anger because I couldn’t get them to be serious. Anger that my plans to share truth were being upturned. My sinful anger and fear were obvious, but I was naively unaware of my underlying problem with control. As someone who relishes God’s sovereignty, I find my struggle with control ironic. I’m quick to argue that God is free to do all that He pleases. I’m also quick to affirm that salvation is held firmly in His hands. So why was I lighting candles? Apparently, I felt it necessary to squeeze my kids’ hearts with shame over their sin. It seemed good and right to take responsibility for their repentance. Commandeering my kids’ destinies not only felt possible, it seemed honorable, as if good moms were the ones who found a way to convince their kids to repent and be saved. Yet lunging for control—even over something as critical as my kids’ salvation—never produces the security, peace, and joy that I imagine it will. When I heap the burden of control up onto my own shoulders, I not only stagger under its weight, I also become the worst (angry, fretting, rattled, obsessed, hand-wringing, perfectionist, anxious, flame-lighting) version of myself. Rebekah’s Prophecy Rebekah, the mother of Jacob and Esau, had the same struggle. Like me, Rebekah enthusiastically believed that God had sealed her sons’ destinies. But also like me, Rebekah mistakenly thought it was right and good to stand in for God and take control. Now Rebekah did have a special circumstance. Before her twins were born, God had prophesied, “Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you shall be divided ; the one shall be stronger than the other, the older shall serve the younger.” ( Gen. 25:23 , emphasis added) This was an extension of the prophecy given to Abraham about God making him a great nation, but the “divided” part was new. No doubt Rebekah found it troubling to learn that her family tree would be split in two. Jacob (the younger twin) would be the father to God’s people, and his older brother would become God’s enemy. But then came something even more troubling. When the twins were grown, Rebekah’s husband made plans to bless Esau—which was customary, since he was older—and name him as the leader of God’s people. He was completely disregarding a prophecy from God. So what did Rebekah do? She sabotaged her husband’s plans. I’m sure Rebekah was convinced that it was good and right to dress Jacob up in Esau’s clothes and put a steaming plate in his hand like a prop. I’m sure it seemed necessary to direct this charade so that she could trick her husband into blessing the rightful son—the one God had chosen ( Gen. 27 ). But as Rebekah stood in for God, she did not act in faith. As she manipulated the details and took control, she did not rejoice in God’s sovereignty. She did not trust God or anticipate the way He would make good on his promises. Instead, she revealed how much she doubted Him. She trusted herself to take control, not God. This same thing could be said of me the day I lit that candle—and on many other days like it. Rebekah’s story issued a stern warning against believing the façade that I can and should take control. But it also offers some strangely soothing comfort. A Comforting Truth When I read that before Rebekah’s twins were even born, God singled out one branch of the family tree to bless, it stirred up a whole bunch of salvation questions and concerns for my own children—and all the other people I want God to save. The possibility of our destinies being split like Rebekah’s family tree is horrifying! Yet tucked inside Rebekah’s prophecy is a striking truth which is helpful for Control Girl mamas like me. Here it is: your salvation is not based on who your mom is. Both Jacob and Esau had the same mom. Rebekah was neither the reason that Jacob followed God nor the reason that Esau didn’t. To find this comfort, you have to consider the alternative. What if, rather than a prophecy, Rebekah had been given a command? What if God had placed the responsibility for her sons’ destinies squarely on her shoulders? What if He expected Rebekah to produce God-honoring faith in the hearts of her two twin boys? And what if God expected this of me? What if it was my job to corral my kids onto the narrow path? What if their eternal destiny hinged on my ability to get them to listen and understand and repent and follow the Lord? How terrifying! How exhausting. I can only imagine what sort of candle-burning, fit-throwing, tactic-forming Control Girl mama I would become. And what if I could dress my child up and poke and prod him into winning God’s blessing? What would this say about God? He wouldn’t be in control; I would. And how comforting would that be? God Is in Control There is no relief or security in presuming that I can command my child’s destiny. None! Rebekah’s frantic manipulation demonstrates this well. As parents, we do have the privilege of laying out the jewels of the gospel and showing our kids how they sparkle, but that’s where our work ends. Salvation is God’s work, not ours, and oh, what comfort this brings. Rebekah’s prophecy was given so that we—as moms, dads, neighbors, and friends—might not become confused and assume that we can control anyone’s destiny. Romans 9:16 says, “So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.” My child’s destiny is held in the wise, merciful hands of God, not my faltering, candle-lighting ones. God is in control, which means I don’t have to be! Check out Shannon’s Book on this topic: Control Girl: Lessons on Surrendering Your Burden of Control from Seven Women of the Bible . More Blogs You'll Like Is Prioritizing Love Un-Christian? What Does The Bible Say? Read More More Than Meets the Eye Discovering God’s Purposes for Motherhood Read More Mom Guilt and How to Fight It Read More

PODCAST That's a Good Question Love, Rainbow Flags, and the Nature of Jesus and the Holy Spirit September 12, 2023 Jon Delger & Ryan DB Kimmel Listen to this Episode Jon Hey, everyone, welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church. This is a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm Jon. I get to serve as one of the pastors at Peace Church, and I get to serve also as the weekly host of this show. We're excited to launch a new year, a new season of That's a Good Question, and we want to reach people and help them grow in their knowledge of the Bible and their walk with the Lord. We think a great way to do that is by answering people's questions about the faith. So you can always send questions to peacechurch.cc/question. We'd love to hear your questions about the faith and be able to talk about them here on the show. We also think the best medium for doing this is on a podcast. So you can listen to it on your way to work or while you're working or whatever the best place is for you so that you can hear us talk about what the Bible says and about how you can walk with Jesus in everyday life. You can also find video clips on YouTube of different parts of this, but the primary place you can find this is as a podcast. And today, I'm excited to be here with Pastor Ryan, our lead pastor at Peace Church. Ryan Yes, hello. Jon Excited to get to talk about the questions people have sent in. We've got some good stuff. Ryan Yeah. Jon All right, here we go. First one, big one here. Question #1: What is love? Ryan Isn't that the question? What is love? So, I think there's a couple ways you can think about it, but I think primarily you gotta go right to probably the Bible's definition that God is love. So, when I think about what is love, I first think of God, who he is, but then also we're seeing that played out through primarily the flesh and blood of Jesus through his life, death, resurrection, through his teachings. So I think for me, when we talk about what love is, it's going to stem all the way back to God. It's going to stem back to who God is and what he's done and what he's done for us. And so there's, man, this is like the age-old question, right? I mean, how many poets have spilt so much ink? How many songs have been written about what is love and what love is and how do we know it and how do we see it, how do we recognize it. I think, you know, when I talk like this, the cynic in me, the person who wants to question everything is, I want to immediately snap back at my own question and say something to the effect of like, so we can only know what love is if we know the Christian God. Does that mean that atheists can't know love or show love to one another or people from another religion? And my response to that is to say, no, absolutely, we can know and show love because we are made in God's image. And because of that, we have a capacity to love that comes from being made in God's image. And so I'd say is that yes, other religions and atheists and anyone who's a human can know and show love. We just may not recognize it as being connected to Yahweh or Jesus Christ or what we see in scriptures. That's kind of ways I'd begin to try to like say that we know what love is. And even if you don't know God, you can still know love. You just may not recognize that that love is coming from our Creator. Jon It's coming from God, whether you know it's coming from God or not. That's how it got there. I was just thinking it came from Pepsi. Those little Pepsi commercials. Ryan As manifested through Mountain Dew? Jon Yes. Ryan Wait, was there a commercial with Pepsi and Love? The What is Love? with Pastor Ryan. You really don't know that commercial? Ryan Man, uh... Wait, is it from the, is it from the SNL skit? Jon I don't know. Ryan Okay, I don't know what we're talking about. I've always been a cult guy. Jon Oh man, okay, I'll forgive you. I'll forgive you. I'll play the, I'll play a clip later. Yeah, yeah, us young folks in the room. That's who it's from. Yeah. Okay, so if it is, so if God is love, God is the ultimate definition of love, but just running down kind of the trail you were going of, if you're an unbeliever, if you adhere to another religion, and you don't know God, but you do know love, how do we, what are some words we could put that even describe what love is like? Ryan Yep, yep. So I think again, all that's going to look, we're going to get that from the pictures of Jesus. I think we'd say things like love is not selfish, love is sacrificial. Jesus said, a greater love has no one in this than he who would lay down his life for his friend. Right, so right there we see in an aspect that love is not selfish, love is sacrificial. And so as people recognize love in their life, I think it's always going to have some sort of sacrificial aspect to it. That love is something that you give out without expecting anything in return.What about you? Jon Yeah, yeah, totally. I think that makes sense. So selfless sacrifice. Selfless, sacrificial, yeah.Yeah, the selfless line was what I was going to think down of just putting others before yourself. Ryan Yep. Jon But love is usually characterized as... Ryan Yeah, I mean it's giving. For God so loved the world that he gave. So love is selfless, it's sacrificial, it's giving. Again, it's an outpouring without expecting something in return. Jon Yeah, which is why I like in the movies. You know, there's a reason that the movie heroes actually look a little bit like Jesus in the sense of the selfless sacrifice, right? Usually the best movie hero or story hero is the hero who lays down his life for everybody else or at least risks his life for everybody else. That's because there's a there's a universal aspect to what a hero is what love is because God is love and he's in us. Yeah, and that's universal across cultures, right? We're always going to recognize that in the hero. Ryan And that's why, you know, guys like Tolkien and Lewis will talk about how Christ is the true myth. Right? I mean, all the things that we long for in the stories are fulfilled fully and really and truly in Jesus. Jesus is the true myth. He's the one who all the stories of what a great hero, of what great love is, is all truly found in the real person of Jesus Christ. And so when we talk about love, I think one of the questions I want to get to is, okay, so we know what love is from Scripture and through God and through the demonstration of Jesus coming to earth and in the gospel. So what are ways that the world misinterprets love or what are the ways that the world defines love that's actually wrong? How would you begin to think about that? Question #2: What are the ways the world misinterprets love? Jon Yeah, well the main one we're hearing right now is love is love, right? The circular definition of love, that love is love. And I think what people are trying to say by that circular definition is that love is whatever you want it to be. I think that's the point of the circular definition. It's you make up your own, create your own adventure, you make up your own meaning to what love is. Ryan So I'd say that's definitely part of it. We'd say love has a definition. In a lot of ways, the world would say it doesn't. Love is whatever you want it to be. We'd also say, and again, when I say we, I mean a representative of the biblical worldview. Love is a sacrificial, selfless thing that you give up, versus the world is love is you affirming me. Love takes. Love is receiving something, versus giving. We put the emphasis on love as the action of one towards another. I think the world would say love is the action of someone else towards me, that they make themselves the center of the story. And so I think, you know, those two dichotomies, love has a definition, with the world to say it necessarily doesn't, or at least they would say every generation and culture has its freedom to develop their own, which essentially is just saying that there's no definition. So we'd say there's definition, the world says there's not definition. We would say, again, we from the biblical worldview, we would say that love is selfless and sacrificial versus the world, which is saying no, love is receiving and affirming something that you get. And we can definitely be the object of love, but we don't start there. We start with the Lord, we start with the gospel. Jon Yeah, so it really goes back to one of those core things of, core worldview things of is truth objective or is it subjective? And as Christians, we're saying truth is objective. There is an objective reality. It comes from God, it's in the Bible. And so things like love, things like beauty, there is an objective standard for these things. Ryan And yeah, there's an objective standard for love. You can't make it up. It's just what you said. I mean, this comes down to a battle of worldviews. Which worldview makes the most logical sense? Which worldview makes the most sense universally? Which worldview will stand the test of time? I think every great battle of thought is ultimately a battle of worldviews. It's where does it actually come from? Where does it stem from? Where does it find its grounding and its rooting? And for us, the eternal question of what is love. We're going to root that in the most eternal thing there is and that's that's God himself. Jon So to go down a little bit of a practical road of another question that came in the question was this: Question #3: What do we do with businesses that have rainbow flags in front of them? Yeah. Are we to go in there and is that showing them love or we to not go there is that yeah. The Christian loving thing to do. How do you do love the business? It's got a rainbow flag in front of it? Ryan So that's a, I'd say that's a, there's a number of ways you can begin to think about that question. And for me, when I think about this, because we've, I'm sure you have too, I've had people at numerous times, and that's putting it lightly, contact me about that very question. And I think at some point you have to leave space for Christian conscience. You know, as you seek the Lord with a mind renewed by the gospel, what are you led to do? So I think you can look at it two ways. One is, I think something you're gonna find a lot, at least around in our culture, like our specific context, is people say, I don't want to support businesses that don't hold true to the values that I wanna see permeated in our culture. So when I go and support businesses with rainbow flags or supporting values that I don't adhere to, people feel like, okay, well, I'm supporting the spread of those ideas into my culture, and I don't want to do that. That's one way that I think you could honestly approach that, but I think other people look at it, other Christians, I would say, other Christians look at it and they say, well, I want to reach these people. I want to share the love of Jesus with these people. And so we should be going into these businesses and making connections and showing the love and letting them know that we love them as people and that we we want you know we want good things to come from them and you know I have pushbacks and critiques on both sides of that on the one hand you can't just stand against so going back to that first group of people you can't just stand against something okay how are you actually promoting then the values you want to see in this world you know if you're willing to take a stand and not go to these businesses, then what in your life are you actually doing that's going to be promoting the values that you want to see in this world? I think a lot of times that can't point to a lot, can't point to much. On the flip, for those who say, no, we need to go into those businesses, we need to share the love and support them as people and look them in the eye and let them know that we love them. A lot of times they'll talk about building bridges, we want to build bridges with these people. And I'd say that I can understand that, that's great, but what are you going to do with that bridge and when are you going to actually walk across it and share the gospel? Like, say, you are a sinner, but the good news is that Jesus died for our sins. You want to build these connections and let these people know they're loved. I appreciate that. I can support that. But you need to at some point walk across the bridge that you say that you're building, which leads to a confrontation in the sense of you're presenting the gospel, which is going to be confronting to their sin. So I think a lot of times people aren't willing to actually do that. They will couch their intentions in this nicety of showing love and building bridges. And it's like, okay, but what are you actually going to do with that? Are you actually going to walk across that bridge and share the gospel at one point. So, again, the cynic in me wants to critique both sides. And so, those are just some ways I'm going to think about it. What about you, Pastor Jon? Jon Yeah, there's one answer that you didn't list in there, and it's because you listed the valid options that Christians can hold in tension, right? Two options that they can both do. There's a third option, which would be to say, well, I'm going to support the rainbow flag and all that it means because I'm a loving person. And that goes back to some of what we were saying just a minute ago, which is that we believe in the truth, objective truth, God and the Bible, God telling us objective truth and what reality is like through the Bible. And therefore, that means that that option is off the table, that scripture is very clear with us, that that lifestyle, LGBTQ lifestyle is contrary to God's word. And so that's one of the options, one of the non-options, is to say that I support all that does and means because I'm a loving person. Actually, to be a loving person would be to share what's true, what's objectively true and real, and what God says leads to eternal life. You want other people to experience eternal life, then you've got to share the truth of the gospel with them. They can turn from their sin, receive Jesus as Savior, and experience life. That'd be the most loving thing you could do for them. Ryan Yeah, this is, I think this is the one of the great tensions people feel because we want to be seen as loving and the world has said, okay, well, to be loving means to affirm everything that the rainbow flag stands for. And there's people who buy into that and people who will go and support because they're trying to fit in. And, you know, I just preached a message about this and where I kind of brought up in the whole notion of holiness is like the more you fit into culture the more that's the antithesis of holiness. Like holiness is being set apart. It's being set apart from this world. It's belonging to God not belonging to this world. And so when we have a pursuit that is leading us to be more affirmed and embraced by our culture, I think we're becoming less holy. And so we get that it's totally unpopular, we get that it's countercultural, we get it's not the way that the world is turning, at least in our society, but for those who want to hold true to the biblical truths of the Christian faith, we can't affirm that as being ordained by God as a flourishing, fruitful life. God has something better for us. And that's the message of Christians, that we want to share that with the world, that we have a God who has something better for us. Even though we are all, all of us trapped in our sin, Christ has made a way to save us from that through his own life and death and resurrection. Yeah, I'd say that's not a valid option. I think you need to either just say, I'm not going to support this because it doesn't promote the values I want to see in my culture at which point I'd say okay well then how are you actually promoting the values? You want you to see in your culture and then on the flip you could say well No, I think we need to go in there and show the love of Christ and build bridges and build relationships to which I'd say Great, that's what you're called to do go do that But what's your plan of action for actually sharing the gospel for actually walking across that bridge once it's built. Jon Yeah, so you brought up your sermon yesterday Which is awesome by the way. But thinking about those two options that you just laid out, I can imagine a Christian being in a conversation where they are asked or are confronted with this choice about what they do with a business with a rainbow flag. And either way they take, they could find themselves in this conversation where somebody's saying to them, okay, you decided not to go to those businesses. How is that, how does that not make you a hateful person? Or you could be sitting in a situation where you say, well, I do go to these businesses, but then I tell the people who are there to repent and turn to Jesus, and they say, well, that's hateful that you tell them they should repent and turn to your God. So, in either way, they could find themselves in this position where they're being accused of being hateful. So, if you're a Christian sitting in that spot where you're doing one of these options that aligns with the vocal worldview and a Christian conscience, and yet the world is saying to you, you're a hateful person because you've made that choice. Yeah. What should Christians say when they are accused of being hateful? Ryan What should a Christian say? Well, I'd say, number one, the first thing I'd say is that just shows the clash of worldviews. Because the truth is, is that unless you're going to affirm and celebrate what they affirm and celebrate, they're going to see you as hateful. It's a zero-sum game in our culture. And this is the whole point I was making yesterday, this is the whole intro, and I wove this throughout the entire sermon, that Christians have always been accused of being something that we're not. That's been the case since day one for Christians. And it's because the world judges us only by their own standard, and they don't look to see the true intention of the Christian heart and message. You can very much expect you will be called the things you don't want to be called. You will be called the things that are not true because you're not doing what the world wants. And so I would say to the Christian, you can expect to not be ultimately welcomed when the rubber meets the road of sharing the message. Now, that's a worst case scenario. I think what we pray for is that God will work and the Spirit will move and people will turn to Jesus and we'll welcome them as brothers and sisters and we'll see him in heaven and we'll join forces and do some great mission and ministry here. But this is part of the package of being a gospel sharer in our world. People are going to reject it and part of that rejection is calling you things that are not true. Yeah. Well, and it's it's kind of getting uh I hesitate to say this but it's getting harder or at least it feels like it's us you know the generations of Christians past might agree or disagree with the statement but it's getting harder and harder to have the conversation because in our world there's so much there's so much there's a such a lack of common ground in our worldviews that it's hard to talk about. Or at least like the yeah, like the moral framework is competing is getting more and more divorced. Jon Yeah. Well, and even it, yeah, and the blending in obviously was Christians. We don't want to blend in. So there's that side of it. So that's good that on the one hand, we're caused to stand out more. On the other hand, I'm saying, I guess one thing that's just even harder is just our lack of shared values or language. Even, you know, when we say love, we mean two different things now. That's just, I think that's harder now than it was five or ten years ago. Ryan Well, and that's it's like there's there's the aspect of no definition and redefinition. I saw this I have this very liberal Progressive Facebook friend who went on this rant about pride and there you know the whole thing was like if you don't understand what we mean By pride then you you know you're a bigot or you're archaic or you're ignorant. You know, pride doesn't mean bride. Pride means celebration of yourself. And it's like, well, at some point, we have to like use the same dictionary. Otherwise, we're never gonna move forward and with any sort of commonality or to any sort of agreement on anything. And it was like, if you don't automatically know what we mean when we use words that we've always used, but now use in a different way, then you're the one who's on the outside, you're the one who is the trouble to society or the ignorant one or the bigot and it's just that whole notion of losing our shared values, we're losing our shared language with that. I mean again we should know what love is love, what that actually means. Okay, I think we do. It's what we're saying is like love between two people of opposite sex. It's like, okay, but it means more than that, right? That's what you're saying. And so when they kind of concede that, then it's like, okay, but what does it actually mean? Well, so if we have two different sets of words, it's like we have two different languages, right? It is like a language barrier. It's like you're talking, one person's talking English, one person's talking Spanish. It's sort of feels like that way sometimes. Which is just an aspect of a culture barrier, right? I mean, part of the culture barrier is language. And that's just where it kind of shows that we are becoming two distinct cultures. Because we're developing different languages. Yeah, totally, totally. So as I think about my own question, the question that I asked, if you're standing in front of somebody and they accuse you of hate speech for sharing a biblical perspective, I'm sort of imagining how I would try to, so if you're trying to cross that culture barrier, that language barrier in a few short sentences, I think I would probably say something like, okay, well, I understand what you're saying, I understand why you're telling me that, that you think that I'm hateful for saying this or for believing this, but actually see it from my side, see it from my perspective. From my perspective, I'm actually the most, this is as loving as I can be because what I believe is that if you don't turn to Jesus, then you will go to hell and spend eternity in punishment instead of eternity in life with Jesus. And so the most loving thing I can do is to point out your sin and ask you to repent of it and to turn to Jesus. Now, I know you don't see it that way, but that's how I see it because that's what the Bible says. And so that exactly it's at some point, right? You not some point you want to start here, but when things get heated, you kind of want to go back to that base level human to human and just be like, listen, you, you understand like you, I understand how, like you're saying, I understand how, why you think this is hateful, but do you understand from my perspective, like, hear me, I do not hate you. Yeah. I do not mean to be hateful to you. That's not my intent. That's not my heart. I'm, I, I, I'm sorry that you receiving it like that way. But the true intention of my heart is to share with you something that's good and pure and right and better. And at some point, if the conversation still crumbles, you did your due diligence. Jon Right. Yeah. The victory, the outcome is not in your hands. It's in the Lord's hands. But I think that's a good way to try to explain yourself. And then ultimately, you go home and you pray. Ryan And also, the other thing is, I think we often get trapped into like, maybe like a YouTube wormhole, or rabbit trail, and we nd up seeing all these videos of these two groups on the street starting to hash it out and go screaming at each other. For me, it's like, the more you can do this one-on-one, I think in the American culture, that's a better way to do it. Sure. I'm not saying there's not a place for street preaching. I'm saying you have to be wise to your times and understand the dynamics of your culture. And I just think there's a group thinking group mentality that is so overbearing. It's almost unproductive to try and have two groups like that. The best, the more that you can move to those is one-on-one conversation or correspondences. I think they're more beneficial and fruitful. I had some conversations this past week with, or not this past week, I had some conversations this past summer with some people on the opposite side of this culture. And we actually had some really great conversations, just me and them, one-on-one, talking about these things, because we're not trying to get likes, we're not trying to show off in front of our buddies, we're having two conversations with between two real people, just with very different perspectives on things. And I felt like it's, they know where I stand, I know where they stand, and it wasn't shrouded in a heated conversation with a bunch of witnesses. And so I think the more you can move those two over a cup of coffee, or through some sort of electronic exchange, I think that's a better approach by and large in our culture. Again, I don't want to diminish the effectiveness or the place of street preaching. I've actually done it myself. I'm not opposed to it. I just think when in my time, I've been way more kingdom productive when I go one-on-one and then on a street corner or with a group of people. So that was a little bit of a rabbit trail, but. No, that was great. Jon Alright, hey, one last question for us here before we go. Somebody sent in this question. It's a great question. They asked this. They asked if Jesus always was or if he came to be when he was sent to Earth. And they're asking the same question about the Holy Spirit. Was the Holy Spirit always there or did the Holy Spirit come when Jesus gave him as a gift after he left the Earth? Question #4: Did Jesus always exist or was He created when He came to earth? Ryan You know, just before we get into the finer points of that, I really appreciate when people just ask straight up theological questions. Yeah, it's awesome. Not the practical questions dealing with all the relevant cultural issues, but just these good old fashioned theological questions. So I can't say for certain, but I wonder if this stems from something I said in the message when I talked about how Christians are called atheists. Christians at one point were called atheists, but I said, it's really odd because we have like the most robust theology of all the religions because we believe that God came to earth as the man born in that manger on Christmas. So I wonder if that sparked it, maybe, maybe not, or it could just be, that's a great age-old question. Jon Yeah, right. People have been asking that question for a couple thousand years now. Ryan They certainly have. They certainly have. So, the answer to that question is that Jesus always existed. He received the name Jesus at his birth, but God the Son, the second member of the Trinity, has existed from all eternity. That's the Orthodox Christian stance. That's what the Bible teaches. That's what we believe and preach here at Peace Church. Pastor Jon, you want to dial in on that a little bit? Jon Yeah, a few passages that come to mind. Think of John 17, when Jesus is praying his high priestly prayer. He's talking to the Father, and he says, he talks about going back to the glory that he had before he had come to the earth, the glory that he had at the Father's side. So, talking about his existence before becoming a man. Think of John chapter 1, the Gospel of John chapter 1, and talking about being the Word, being one with God, talk about his existing since eternity past. John 1:2-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. I think of Colossians chapter one, talks about Jesus' preeminence, think of passages like in Romans 8 that talk about Jesus being the firstborn among many brothers. Those passages could be easily kind of, I could see, you know, it'd be, those are kind of tricky, that language, firstborn, but what Jesus is talking about is actually his higher standing or his being the highest among the brothers. Also just that he's the first of the resurrected ones. So it's not saying that he didn't exist before he was born as a man. Jesus always was. Ryan Yeah, we, I know that you had this professor too. We weren't in college, Professor Dr. Doug Felch. He talked about this because this is an age-old controversy that the early church dealt with. It's called the Arian Controversy where people would argue, was there a time when Jesus did not exist? Or was there not a time when Jesus did not exist? And like literally people would gather in groups on the sides of the on different sides of the street and they'll and you know two thousand years ago and scream at each other and professor felch would like reenact this in front of it was amazing you know people would raise their fist in the air and they'd say there was a time when he was not and then the people on the other side of the street would say there was not a time when he was not and then you go back and forth and was when he was not was not when he was not was not when he was not that's right it's a tongue twister, but he was doing it perfectly every time. Jon He did, yeah. Ryan And never forget it. Never forget it. So, no, Jesus pre-existed. His time went before, I mean, Jesus was always existed with the Father. The Father, Son, and Spirit. Paternally existed. One in essence, three in persons. The second member of the Trinity came to earth, born, took on humanity, was given the name Jesus, Jesus Christ, forever wedded with his humanities. He's perfectly, he's 100% human, 100% divine, but Jesus came from heaven to earth and he's returned to heaven to earth and we will be with him one day when we leave this mortal plane. And so that's a great question. Real quick, the Holy Spirit too. Jon Should we talk about the Holy Spirit as well? Ryan Yep, so I mean, I think that's less confusing, or at least produces less questions. I hear that one way less. And I think a lot of times you just go back to Genesis 1, the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the deep. I mean, the Spirit was there in the very beginning before creation. And so, Father, Son, Spirit, first, second, third persons of the Trinity, eternally existing. Jon God has always been one in essence, three in persons. Always was the case, always will be the case. Didn't just start on earth in human history. Always been the case. Great question. Awesome stuff. Thanks for asking. Thanks everybody. Great questions. Thanks for sending them in. And thanks for spending some time with us. And thanks for spending some time with us. We'll catch you later.

From Rejected to Restored Sermon Series: The Reversal Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: John 5:1-18 Transcript Today is the day that the Lord has made. So let us rejoice and be glad in it. And everyone said, amen, amen. So today we are talking about one of those just classic stories of Jesus. It has all the makings of a great Jesus story. He heals a man and then the religious people get all upset and they try to kill him for it. But then rather than backing down, Jesus doubles down because that's our Jesus. Amen. Amen. We are in our Easter and Lent sermon series as we're walking through the Gospel of John together, as we're looking at this this notion here that Jesus brings about the great reversal, how he brings us back to everything good. And in this series, as we walk through the Gospel of John together, we're seeing does not just stop what sin has done, but by the power of the gospel, he restores what is broken. It's today, we're looking at this notion here of going from rejected to restored. From rejected to restored. Go ahead, if you have your Bibles, please turn to John chapter five. Now that's on page 1132, if you wanna use the Bibles that are here. Now if you are following along with our Lent reading as we walk through the Gospel of John, as we do daily readings in this gospel, you'll notice that the passage that we're going to look at today was the passage that we read yesterday together through this reading. And if you read it yesterday, you might have noticed something that I've got to take a moment and just acknowledge. If you did the reading yesterday, or even if you begin to look at the passage now, as we look at verses 1 to 18, you may notice that for many Bibles, most Bibles, including the Bibles that we use here at Peace Church, verse 4 is missing. It goes right from verse 3 to verse 5. Now, the reason that verse 4 is omitted is because the oldest manuscripts we have, meaning those documents that are closest to when John wrote his, the copies that we have, they don't include this verse. And so what we're trying to do, we're just trying to be more in alignment with what John the apostle actually wrote. And so the ESV Bibles that we use here, that's one of our preferred translations, the English Standard Version, it does not include this verse, but it does make note of it in the margin. It's a verse that provides some interesting details to the story, but it does not appear to be part of the original writing as John first composed the Gospel of John. So, we make note of it, but we don't include it as being part of the divinely inspired Word of God. So hear me, no one's trying to hide it or suppress it. It's noted in the Bibles. It's there if you want to read it. We'll make mention to what it says. But again, we just don't believe it was part of what John originally wrote. And so with that, we are gonna read verses one to 18 together, that's a little bit longer of a passage. And so I would ask you, if you are able, would you please stand for the reading of God's word? Would you hear the gospel of John, chapter five, verses one to 18? Would you hear God's word? After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is in Jerusalem by the sheep gate a pool, an Aramaic called Bethesda, which has five roofed colonnades. In these lay a multitude of invalids, blind, lame, and paralyzed, one man who had been an invalid for 38 years. When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had already been there a long time, he said to him, do you want to be healed? The sick man answered him, sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up. And while I am going, another steps down before me. Jesus said to him, get up, take your bed and walk. And at once the man was healed and he took up his bed and walked. Now that was the Sabbath. So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, it is a Sabbath, it's not lawful for you to take up your bed. But he answered them, the man who healed me, that man said to me, take up your bed and walk. And they asked him, who is the man that said to you, take up your bed and walk? Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn as there was a crowd in the place. Afterwards, Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, see, you are well. Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you. The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, My Father is working until now, and I am working. This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. Amen, this is God's word. Would you please remain standing as we say a quick prayer. Father, we pray that you would bless our time here this morning with the moving of the spirits and with the knowledge of your gospel truth. Be with us as we learn from your word and as we learn all the more about the power of the gospel, our savior. For it's in his name that we pray these things in Jesus mighty name. And everyone said, amen, amen. Go ahead and have a seat here. So as we walk through this passage today and we learn this story from the life of Jesus, we're going to focus on this one main idea here today. And that's the fact that the gospel. The next one will say the gospel brings us from rejected to restored. Now, again, let's make it clear. Not going from condemned to clean, but rejected to restored. Because Jesus brings about the true reversal of things. But here's an interesting note about this passage. If you like history, you're gonna love this. So, this passage in particular, for a long time, was used as a passage to try to prove that the Bible is not historically reliable. Now, see what had happened was that John gives us a pretty specifically detailed description of where this took place. But the problem was, is we didn't really see a place like that in Jerusalem. Again, John's really detailed here. He gives specifics. It's in Jerusalem. It's by the sheep gate. This is where sheep were brought in to be prepared for sacrifice. It was a pool, so water was there, right? And it says it was also surrounded by five-roofed colonnades. Now, a colonnade is like a portico or like a porch. So we have some pretty detailed description here, except there wasn't a place like that found in Jerusalem. So for many, many years, liberal historians and liberal theologians would say, see, the Bible is not historically reliable. Until guess what? We found it. See, what had happened was in the 400s AD, during the Byzantine Empire, because this was a holy place where Jesus performed a miracle, what they did was they built a little church over this section of Jerusalem, over this little pooled area. I don't know why they would do those things back in the day, but they did. This was the 400s AD, and about 200 years later, roughly in the 600s AD, 614 to be specific, the Persian Empire came in and sacked Jerusalem and they destroyed this little church. And so the rubble from the church caved in upon this pool. And there it sat, undisturbed and undiscovered for 1200 years, until archeologists began to dig out Jerusalem and they discovered this very unique setting with this pool and these five porticos. And because of John's detailed description that matched perfectly, archaeologists realized, this is the pool of Bethesda. And it was because of John's detailed description. My friends, the Bible is historically reliable. Reliable. And more than that, it's true. Its message is true. Its message is trustworthy. It will stand the test of time. It will outlast you, it will outlast me. And that's why its truth is so important for us to know because it gives us something eternal. They said, see, the Bible isn't historically reliable, and they were wrong. This is where Jesus himself stood and performed a miracle. So my friends, trust the word of God. It stood the test of time and it's true, and it's message is true. And this morning we're gonna look at this message here that the gospel brings us from rejected to restored. So let's look at three things from this passage. And the first one is this, Christ sees you when you are unnoticed. Christ sees you when you are unnoticed. So here's, let's walk through the story. So Jesus and his crew, they go to Jerusalem for a festival and they come upon this pool called Bethesda. In the original language that meant house of mercy. Now here's what was going on with this pool. It had been come to be to be believed that an angel at certain times would stir up this pool and when the pool was stirred the first person who got in would be healed. Now there's not much to go on in history as to know where that legend or that story or that belief arose, but when archaeologists discovered the pool of Bethesda, they also found near that pool some marble carvings from outside the Jewish faith that denoted that this pool performed miracles. So people even outside the Jewish faith believe that there was something unique about this pool. Again, we don't have much history to understand why they believed that. But either way, Jesus comes up to this pool. There are many people there. But Jesus sees this one man who apparently was sick and could not walk. This man waited and wanted to be the first person in the pool, but it was not going to happen because no one was going to help him. He was overlooked, ignored, forgotten, rejected. This was truly a marginalized man. We talk these days a lot about marginalized people. The thing though about that is, as I said, marginalized people. You thought of somebody, but you need to understand, when we talk about marginalized people, we're talking about those people that nobody thinks about and that's this guy He was passed over he was stepped over Like literally he was this he was at the bottom of the barrel But Jesus comes and when everyone else had ignored him when everyone else was stepping over him Jesus sees him Because that's who Jesus is. So my friends, if you are feeling like you have no place, that you're rejected, that you're ignored, that everyone just passes by or passes over you, let me just tell you right now, the Son of God sees you. Because Jesus sees you when you are unnoticed. Look at verse three, and there lay a multitude of invalids, blind, lame, and paralyzed. And one man who was there had been an invalid for 38 years. This man was sick. We don't know exactly what. We just know that he was sick and unable to walk. And he was like this for nearly four decades. This was a man who knew pain, humiliation, rejection like so few of us do. Verse 6, when Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had been there already for a long time, he said to him, do you want to be healed? Hold on a second. Like it's like, Jesus, are you kidding? Of course he wants to be healed. What else do you think he's doing here? Now, if you thought that, then let me just say this, my friend, I don't know if you know this or not, but some people act like they want help, but they really don't. Many people, they just want a handout. They don't actually want help or healing. Surprise, surprise. People come to the church and they want us to give them money. They look at a large church like Peace and they think that we just are overflowing with cash or something. And we're just gonna freely just give it to anyone. Now listen, when people come to the church and they want help, I need you to know as a lead pastor, we do not respond with judgment. We respond with kindness and a willingness to help. When people come and they want to seek help, of course we want to help them. And we say that we want to help you. We want to help you more than you actually realize. We don't want to just pay your bills. We want to help you get to a better place in life. You think people stick around after that? Not very many. We want to help. We're commanded to help. We are blessed and we want to help, but we wanna do more than just pass out money. We wanna help people get out of their situations, not just continue to support a lifestyle that keeps them in the down and out. Notice, Jesus does not ask this man, do you wanna get into the pool? He asks him, do you want to be healed? This is key, because many people, they just wanna get into the pool. They just want the handout. They just want to do what they think is the next thing. They don't have a bigger vision for their life or their life situation or how the gospel can bring them into a better and a larger healing to their lives. Jesus asks, do you want to be healed? Look at how the man responds. Verse 7, the sick man answered him sir I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred while I'm going another steps down before me Did you notice this Jesus asks about healing and this man can only think about the pool Now listen, you have to have empathy for this man He wants to be healed But he's going about it the only way that he knows or has access to and yet Jesus is trying to show him something bigger and better. Jesus is essentially saying to this man, you don't need the pool, you need me. Verse 8 and 9, Jesus said to him, Get up, take up your bed and walk. And at once the man was healed and he took up his bed and walked. Because my friends, Christ sees you when you are unnoticed. But also, Christ serves you when you are unknowing. As if a miracle wasn't cool enough, here's where the story takes a different turn. Verse nine continues by saying, now that day was the Sabbath. Dun dun dun. Uh oh, take note here my friends. The Jews were not allowed to work, not even allowed to carry things on the Sabbath. So the Jews said to the man who had been healed, It's the Sabbath, and it's not lawful for you to take up your bed. Verse 11. But he answered them, The man who healed me, that man said to me, Take up your bed and walk. They asked him, Who is the man that said to you, take up your bed and walk? Take notice, they don't even mention the miracle. They don't want to mention the miracle. They don't want to mention the good things that God's doing. They just want to know if this man broke the law or not. Verse 13, now the man who had been healed did not know who it was for Jesus had withdrawn as there was a crowd in the place. Jesus healed this man and the man didn't even know it was Jesus. And I think for many of us, it's the same. We don't realize God working in our lives in that moment. Many of us have to get through, look back, and then we see it was God working all along. My prayer is that you have the eyes to see right now in the moment that God is moving in your life. But if it takes you getting through it and looking back to see, then I pray you have the eyes then to see it. But notice, Jesus does find this guy a little bit later, but look where? Verse 14, afterward, Jesus found him at the pool? No, at the temple. Did you notice this? Because I love this, don't miss this. This man went to the pool, let's just call it the pool of superstition. This man went to the pool of superstition to get healed. But when he was truly healed, he did not stay at that pool. He went to the temple. Why? Because he went to worship God. My friends, is that your response when good things happen to you? Do you go to the church and give gratitude and give thanks to God for what he's done? Afterwards, verse 14, Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, See, you are well. Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you. Time out. Time out. Big time, time out. We have to handle this verse carefully, otherwise we are liable to seriously misapply what's going on here. We really have to understand what Jesus is saying here. Jesus is not saying that because he sinned he was an invalid for 40 years. What Jesus is saying, what he's telling the man, is that sin brings destruction and ruin to our lives. Jesus is saying to this man, I've healed you, so don't go and continue to live a life of sin because sin will lead you to a place that's worse than what I found you. So you need to understand that Jesus' work in our lives is not to give us what we want. What that man wanted was to get into the pool. Jesus does not come into our lives to give us what we want. He comes into our lives to give us something better, to give us healing, to heal us, to save us, and to give us a mission and a purpose in life where we do not sin anymore but we go and we live as people who are made whole, holy, and righteous. People who are restored to God so that we can live rightly with God. Jesus said to the man, see you are well. Sin no more. But now that the man is healed and he knows who saved him and who healed him, look at verse 15. That man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who healed him. And this gets Jesus in hot water because he healed, because he did a miracle on the Sabbath. Oh, my friends, can you imagine being so religious and legalistic that miracles are considered a crime? If that sounds crazy to you, and that may sound crazy to you, but I wonder how many good things that God calls us to do that might be considered a crime if they go against our laws. Well, you may scoff and say, well, the Pharisees, they were following man-made laws. All laws are man-made. American law is man-made. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying at some point you have to realize at the end of the day where does your ultimate allegiance lie? if it's right before God, should not we do it even if it gets us in trouble? If it's wrong before God, should we stand, celebrate, and enforce it? Jesus Christ was doing miracles. He was doing good things in God's name, and they said that's illegal. That's against our laws. And I'll just ask you, if you were in this story, which side would you have been on? Listen, we often ask that question, right? You don't want to be on the wrong side of history. I'll tell you right now, I don't care what side of history I'm on. I don't care what future people think of me. I care what God thinks. My allegiance is to Him. I stand before Him at the end of the days, not before future people. I don't care what side of history I'm on. I want to be on God's side. I want to be on the side of Jesus Jesus was doing good things and they said it's illegal. I'm asking you. What side do you want to be on my friends? We are faced with this every day Which side do you want to be on following God's righteous law or our own man-made ones again? I'm not calling anyone or telling anyone to break the law But I am asking you to consider, where does your ultimate allegiance lie? Now listen, this is a thought experiment, and I understand that we stand dangerously close to the edge of a cultural cliff. And I'm not going to push anyone off it, and I'm not going to ask anyone to jump. I just want you to consider this, so I'll say it again. How many good, godly things are considered a crime because they go against our law? And on the flip, how many things are legal that are actually sinful? Let me just say, dads, that's a great conversation to have with your kids on the ride home. And right now, I think some of us are trying to think, what am I getting at, who am I pointing at? I'm pointing at everyone right now, especially the guy in the mirror, but I'm pointing at both sides of the political and cultural divide right now. Because both of us, all of us, fall short of this. And so this is why I'm here to tell you that only Jesus can heal us personally, only Jesus can heal us culturally. Only Jesus can heal us because only Jesus can save us. That's the last thing we're going to look at. Christ saves you when you are unable. Verse 16, And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. Meaning, these guys were showing their true colors, and Jesus knows that they are coming after him, and so does Jesus back down? No, he presses in. He does not back down. Verse 17, but Jesus answered them, my father is working until now, and I am working. Jesus is like, you want to persecute me because I did a miracle on the Sabbath. I love how Jesus responds here. He sort of rubs it into them. Notice he keeps using the word working the thing you weren't supposed to do on the Sabbath. He said, God is constantly working, even on the Sabbath, and God's my father, so I will constantly be working, even if it's on the Sabbath. I love Jesus Christ, I'll just be honest with you. This is why I follow him, he's amazing. Working, he says this, the thing you weren't supposed to do on the Sabbath. And with that, they go from wanting to persecute him, now they want to kill him. But listen to me, it's not just because he was breaking their Sabbath law. Verse 18 tells us, this is why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own father, making himself equal with God. So Jesus goes from, in their mind, breaking the Sabbath law, to tried and true, utter, blatant blasphemy. The officials went from wanting to arrest Jesus to wanting to kill him. Because the Jews, we may miss this with our modern ears, we may not understand what's going on here, but the Jews knew exactly what Jesus meant when he said this. He was making himself equal with God, thereby calling himself God. But we must understand this, my friends, if Christ is not God, he is not able to save you. Because Jesus Christ was fully man, this made him be able to pay for human sin. But because he was God, this made him able to pay for all of human sin. Because Christ is God, and he does not just heal us in the moment, doctors can do that. Jesus restores us for eternity. Christ showed that he was able to do this by healing a man who had been sick and neglected for almost 40 years, but Christ proved it once and for all with his own resurrection from the dead. So my friends, here's the gospel, that Christ died for our sins and on the third day rose again from the dead so that we could go from being rejected by God because of our sin to restore fully into the family of God where we can now experience the love of God and worship him freely as we were meant to do. Let me just level with you for a moment. As I look out here and I see faces of my church family and I know some of the pain that some of us are dealing with. I know that in the gospel, God's promises may not feel like they are ever going to be immediately fulfilled. We may not see immediate healing, but God's promises, hear me, are bigger and more eternal than this momentary life. You are not made just to get into the pool. You are made to be healed forever. And we find our eternal healing and restoration through the gospel when we let Christ do that work in his work in our lives. And the story that we looked at today is a true account from history, a place that you can actually go visit and stand. And while it's a true account from history, you need to understand this this little story shows us so much about ourselves as well This story is about a man Broken and unable to save himself rejected by all and yet Christ comes to offer him healing But listen to me Jesus does not just awake something inside of us So that this man can so that we or this man can heal himself. Christ heals this man when he could not heal himself. And then Christ calls him to stand, go, and sin no more, restoring him to good health. My friends, this is a picture of us, broken by our sin that we honestly love so much. And because we love our sin and give ourselves to sin, God rejects that and rejects us. But yet, Christ comes in and saves us, undoes the work of sin in our life so that we could be welcomed back into the family of God, we could be welcomed back into the presence of God, and Christ calls us to stand up. Don't let sin bring you down anymore. Stand up, go, walk, and sin no more. And what Christ does is not just restore us to health, he restores us to God Himself. You know, I, as a pastor here, I get up on most Sundays, for some reason you keep coming in here and you preach. And I'll be honest with you, every single week, every single Sunday morning, I think and pray this all at the same time. Lord, why would this sermon matter to anyone tomorrow morning? We're here on Sunday morning, but I want to say something that's going to matter to you tomorrow morning. And I ask God to answer that prayer, and I don't know if He does or not. I pray that He does sometimes. But when it comes to this passage, well-known Bible story many of us learned in Sunday school. Why would this matter to you tomorrow morning? Here's what I want you to remember tomorrow morning. When the media wants to tell you the sky is falling, when you're unsure of what to do next, when you get lost in the daily grind of life, I want you to remember this there is a God in heaven who sent his son to die for you So that by the power of the gospel you can understand that you are not rejected by the king of kings You are not rejected by the God of the universe anymore. You are restored to him Because that's who you are in Christ so no matter what the world wants to tell you or say to you Christ has a better word and And that word is that you are welcomed back into the family. You are restored as a son or daughter in the kingdom of God. And that should matter to you more than anything else come tomorrow morning. You are rejected no more, but now finally, fully and forever restored, restored to God so that you can truly know his love, so that you can truly worship him freely. And this happens through Christ, by Christ, because He has brought us from being rejected to restored. And this happens through Christ, by Christ, because He has brought us from being rejected to restored. And all God's people said, Amen. And Amen.

The Story of Job - His Suffering Sermon Series: The Story of Job Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: Job 2:1-10 Transcript Today is the day that the Lord has made. So let us rejoice and be glad in it. And everyone said, Amen. And Amen. I hope you can say that in your days of suffering. And as I said, this is a weighty and weighty topic. And so before we feel the weight of this, I thought maybe we start on a lighter note with just, some fun facts as we get going with this heavy topic of Job. So I'm gonna give you some fun facts here this morning, and because we're reading a book of the Bible, let's stick with the theme of books. So here are some fun facts, and if these ever come in handy to you one day when you're on Jeopardy, take a guess, what was the first book written on a typewriter? Any guesses? Tom Sawyer by Mark Twain. Interesting. Now this one is going to expose who the weird people are and they don't care that people know that they're weird, but is there anyone here, and it goes to the other venues too, you love the smell of old books. Yep, see, there are always a few. Do you know there's actually a word for that? I don't know if I'm saying it right, but bibliomania? I think that's how you say it. So right now, the top three most-read books in the world. The Bible, no surprise there. The second one is probably one that actually on this side of the pond we're not super familiar with, but worldwide it's one of the most read books. It's the quotations from the chairman Mao Zedong. And then third, I guess is more of a series than a book. Anyone want to take a guess? Harry Potter. I heard that. Alright, last one. The last fun fact is the cue segue. Did you know that the Book of Job is one of the oldest books of the Bible? And it is quite possibly the first one that was actually written down. This is interesting because of the subject matter, right? Because it's such a weighty topic dealing with suffering and it's caused so many questions and yet it is a book that has clearly stood the test of time. It has affected and challenged and encouraged people across continents, centuries, languages, cultural divides. Job is amazing and it's an amazingly complex book, but it stood the test of time. But I would say, I would say especially for us here who are 21st-century Americans, I would say that we, compared to all people throughout human history, I dare say that we have even harder time with this story than most. And here's why. Because largely, as a people, we're unaccustomed, we're not accustomed to suffering. Suffering's not a way of life for us. And I'm not diminishing those who have suffered in this world, but I'm saying largely as a people, suffering is not a part of the American ethos. We are people who do not have wants, largely. We're people who have what we need. We've had comfortable lives. We're among the richest people who have ever lived on the face of the planet. And you best believe that affects how we consider and relate to God. That you better believe that informs how we have come to understand how God works. We are a people who think because of our life of seeming pleasure and supply and lack of wants, well, Well, surely, surely then that means that God wouldn't give us anything other than our best life now. And the people who think that are going to have an incredibly hard time, more than most, with a story like Job, because Job is so challenging to that notion. So let's get there now. Would you please turn in your Bibles to Job chapter 2. We're in the second part of this five-week series, Job Chapter 2. That's on page 529 if you want to use the Bibles we provided. Before we really sink into our text, I want to take a moment and just kind of walk through the first part of chapter 2, just kind of frame, give us a frame of reference. So as you're turning there, Job chapter 2 verse 1, it says this, it says, again, again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came among them to present himself to the Lord. Okay, so to clarify, the sons of God, we talked about this last week, the sons of God are, this is a spiritual setting, these are spiritual beings. We don't know exactly what they are, maybe they are angels, we see the devil come into this presence, the devil is a fallen angel, doesn't specify that, but what we see is this is God's what we've known as the divine counsel not because God's seeking their wisdom but because God has created these spiritual beings to see his will enacted upon creation and reality. But Satan enters and we see a conversation that reflects what we saw last week with Job chapter 1 verse 2 "and the Lord said to Satan from where have you come from Satan answered the Lord from going to and fro on the earth, and walking up and down it. And the Lord said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns away from evil? He holds fast to his integrity." Stop right there. So God is saying, pointing back to how Job has survived his first round of loss and suffering. But he's done this by maintaining his faith in God and his integrity as a man. God says he still holds fast to his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason. So again, here we see that God specifies that Job in a sense did not deserve this, which shows us that there is something much larger, much deeper at play here. Verse four, "then Satan answered the Lord and said, skin for skin, all that a man has, he will give for his life, but stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh and he will curse you to his face." Okay, stop right there. Do you see what Satan is saying to God? Satan is saying to God, God, you know that the heart of man, the heart of humankind, is ultimately selfish. At the end of the day, all they really care about is themselves. The reason Job passed the first test is that you wouldn't let me attack him. But God, you attack Job? That's when you'll see him curse you. That's when you'll see his faith fail. "And the Lord said to Satan, behold, he is in your hand. Only spare his life." So God permits this. But we also see God put limitations on this, which shows us that God is still in control. But unlike last time, we see the devil here go right to work. Verse 7, "So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and struck Job with loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. And he, Job, took a piece of broken pottery with which to scrape himself while he sat in the ashes." So here we see Job in his lowest moment because the devil always kicks you when you're down. Satan so physically afflicts Job with this skin disease, whatever it is, that it literally feels better to Job to take shards of broken pottery and to scrape his skin. That feels better than the sores. That's how terrible an agony he is in. Job took a piece of broken pottery with which to scrape himself while he sat in the ashes shows us that Job is grieving because ash represents devastation. And Job is showing us that he literally and symbolically is sitting in the midst of his devastation as he is mourning the loss of everything. And I would probably say particularly, especially his children. But it's these next two verses, verses nine and 10, that I really want to spend time digging into this morning. So again, Job is at his lowest moment. He's in pain. He's lost it all. He's lost his children. He's covered in a skin disease. And then look what happens. That's where we're going to pick up. So would you hear the word of the Lord? Job chapter two, verses nine and 10. "Then his wife said to him, Do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die. But he said to her, You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil? In all of this Job did not sin with his lips." Amen. This is God's word. Let's pray and we'll continue. Let's pray. Father God in heaven, above, Lord, we need your guidance of your Holy Spirit as we read from your Word. So we ask, Holy Spirit, that you'd meet with us now in the words that you've inspired. Father, help us to see your truths in this as we grow closer to you and as we grow more into the image of our precious Savior and your son Jesus, in whose name we pray. And everyone said, amen and amen. So as we look at this, there's one thing, in particular, I want to make sure that I underscore for us here this morning as we walk through this passage, and it's this. In times of suffering, Job did not rely on a story like his. He relied on his faith. You may not be in a time of suffering, but you may be one day. And I hope you rely on and hold on to this, that Job didn't rely on a story like his. He relied on his faith. Before Job, we don't really see a story like Job. So it wasn't an inspiring story that got Job through his suffering. It was God. It was his faith it revealed so much about the strength of his faith and I think this points out one of the things that's really hard about life in many ways pain teaches us what peace cannot so often pain makes us remember, peace helps us forget. My father tragically died before I even turned two years old and my 23-year-old mom was left alone with me and my infant sister. I grew up with scars from wounds I don't remember feeling. And so I didn't necessarily grow up with pain, but I did grow up asking painful questions sooner than most. And for those of you who have lost loved ones, especially tragically, we know something. We know that sometimes death teaches us about life in ways that life can't. And when we come to a story like Job, in ways that life can't. And when we come to a story like Job, I think one of the biggest questions we have, and probably the question we have for a story like Job, is why? Why? Why did this happen? Why did God allow this? And do you want to know my answer? My ultimate answer is, I don't know why. I can tell you my reformed Stoic theological mind, I can give you an answer that in some way a greater good was to come out of this, in some way God was more glorified in this, and I do think that's the answer, but my human mind says I don't know why, I just see what. I see what came from this. I see a truth more fully known, I see a truth more fully revealed. I see a pathway to deal with pain and suffering and loss. But it's through faith in God, I don't know how people in this world endure pain and loss without God. And you best believe that faith, while it causes, while it provides comforts, it often causes questions. If you're doing faith right, it provides questions and tension and there's mystery that we have to sit with in a sense But it's all through faith in God. Listen to me not a god who stood by Helpless as Job suffered but a God who permitted this to happen and listen to me. I'd rather that be the case I'd rather have to deal with the mystery of a God who allowed this to happen than believe in a God who is too weak to stop it. So as we walk through these two verses, these two very profound verses, I want to pull out a few things for us this morning. And it's how suffering reveals so much. First thing I think we're going to see is that suffering reveals the difference between integrity versus independence, faithfulness versus foolishness, perspective versus entitlement, and innocence versus excuses. So first thing, suffering, it grows our faith by revealing the difference between integrity and independence. Verse nine, then his wife said to him, do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die. So here we see Job's wife finally makes her appearance and oh, what an appearance it is. But let us not forget, this woman not only lost her way of life, this woman lost all of her children. This woman lost 10 children. This woman is broken in half. She's empty, she's angry, she's lost her passion for life, she's lost her will to live. I know my wife, I don't know how this woman is even standing right now. And her husband, she sees her husband who's also at his lowest point, but she sees him holding onto his faith and that embitters her. She's hating life right now and she wants Job to hate life too. So do not judge Job's wife because what she says to Job while wicked and from a place of pain, what she says comes from something that's so true. Look what she says, let's study this for a moment. Then his wife said to him, do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die. Okay, now we all know that the story of Job is like an onion and there's many layers here, but so here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna peel back a bunch of layers right now and we're gonna go deep into this story. So stay with me. She says, do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die. So did you notice, did you notice that Job's wife, she rightly connects the strength of Job's character, which is his integrity, with the core of Job's character, which is his faith. She's connecting these two. She knows that Job's identity is his faith. And his faith forms his identity, which is manifested in his integrity the job's wife is saying That for job to reject his integrity. It's the same thing as job rejecting his faith For job to reject his faith is for job to reject his very identity. Those things are intertwined and indistinguishable so church and Friends who are here, please don't lose me on this one. This is such a critical point to show how different Job is handling this pain and suffering than his wife. And I say most of the people on this planet. Job knows that to be true to himself, he must first be true to God. Now, follow me on this for Job's true identity is found in God and this my friends flies in the face of prevailing culture. Our culture's mantra can be summarized like this, to thine own self be true. Our world has taken that to mean in order for you. But what we see in Job is that for him to be true to who he is, he must firstly be true to God. And parents and grandparents, take this home. Stop telling your kids to be true to God. Because when they are firstly true to God, that's when they find out who they are truly meant to be. An identity apart from God is idolatry. And that makes us the God, the lowercase g God of our lives, and we are terrible, terrible gods to ourselves and terrible gods to each other. Only in God can we find out who we are truly meant to be. We are His design. And we are more true to ourself when we are firstly true to who God is creating us to be. Job's wife says, do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die. Job's wife is saying to Job, give up on your character, give up on your faith. Because Job's wife knows that for him those things are the same. His faith forms his character, his identity. Job's integrity, hear me in this, Job's integrity comes from his dependence on God, not his independence from God. For Job to be until you find yourself in the Lord. But our world thinks you need to reject God and to reject His plan and to reject His design for you to be free to who you are. And what I'm saying to you is that the opposite is true. That you'll never know who you truly are until you find yourself in the Lord. Job lost it all. He didn't lose himself because his true self was found in God. It's not about who you say you are. It's about who God says you are. Job's wife says, curse God and die. Verse 10, "but then he said to her, you speak as one of the foolish women would speak," which leads to number two, Suffering reveals the difference between foolishness and faithfulness So Job is teaching us a very profound truth here. He says, turning your back on God in your suffering is foolish. Notice though, notice though, Job, the righteous man, he doesn't call his wife a fool. He just says what she is saying is foolish. That turning your back on God is foolishness. Why? Because when we turn our back on God, when we turn from God, we turn to that which is less. Less good, less holy, less helpful, less true. Job's wife is acting as a foolish woman. But remember number one, please don't judge her, but also notice that Job doesn't belittle her or call her a name. He calls her out by saying, what you're saying is foolish, because what Job's wife doing, what Job's wife is doing right now is something that we all need to be aware of, and I'm pretty sure most of you are aware of this modern day proverb. We see this in Job's wife. You know this common phrase, that hurt people hurt people. Have you guys heard that before? Like those who are hurting end up hurting others. Job's wife is like the archetype of this. She's in pain, she's in anguish, she's hurting, she's lashing out. She wants Job to hurt too. She lost all 10 of her children. So remember, in our times of suffering, we need to act out of faithfulness, not foolishness. Because the heart that is hurt, it first needs to lament, and it needs to heal. Because before it does that, it can be a very dangerous thing, as we see in Job's wife. Suffering also reveals something else about the human heart. And that's the difference between perspective and entitlement. And what we see here, in this next line, is we see a verse that our world is emotionally incapable of comprehending. Job says, shall we receive good from God and shall we not receive evil? Alright, let's just stop here for a second, because the word evil here, that presents some questions, doesn't it? So, I'll try to do this really, real briefly here. But the ancient Hebrew, what this was written in, it was a very limited language, limited in its range of word, unlike English, the most wordy language of all time, we can nuance what we want to say with particular words. The ancient languages didn't have that breadth of vocabulary. Which is why some of your translations may say adversity or trouble. But because the ESV, the English Standard Version, what we use here at Peace Church, because that's a descendant of the King James Bible, we still translate this word as evil. But let's be clear. Let's be clear here. The Bible is clear that God is not the author of evil. But clearly, God in his sovereignty allows this for a time. But while God allows us, make no mistake, this comes from Satan's hands. So the notion behind this that I think we need to understand is that we have to, on this side of eternity, understand that we're going to have to take the good with the bad because that's called living in the real world The people who think that they only deserve good all the time are called entitled But Job is not entitled, Job is a man with perspective and his perspective Allows him to endure suffering unlike his wife or anyone else on this planet entitlement or anyone else on this planet. Entitlement destroys us during suffering, because entitlement doesn't prepare us for hardship, loss, or suffering. I think maybe a common way to look at this is to say that what Job is showing us right now is the difference between being humble and being prideful. So let's connect this with something that we said earlier. Okay, earlier we said people in our world reject God so they can determine their own identity. Again, I think that's only ever going to produce a shadow of who you are meant to be. But here's what we have done. We have told the last few generations you can be anything you want to be. And we thought we were being kind, we thought we were being uplifted, and we thought we were producing healthy children, but what we were doing was we were feeding them a mantra made of Twinkies. We should not have been saying to thine own self be true. We should have been telling our kids be true to God. But we don't have God in our lives, which means we become the God of our lives, lowercase g, gods. Add to that, we've been raised with an entitlement attitude and what do we have? We have the culture around us. We should have saw this coming. What we have in the world around us is the product of our own teachings. This was the inevitable outcome of this. And I would say one of the most glaring examples of this would be the transgender movement. The transgender community, in a sense, to no fault of their own, they are demonstrating the unintended consequences of the be whatever you want, find yourself teaching of their upbringing. Add to that an unhealthy dose of massive entitlement and now the world must bend to their will. The transgender community gets to identify as they want, not as God designed. And if you misgender, dead name, or fall short of anything other than affirming their godless identity, then you are committing the cardinal sin of our age. If you don't let them use the bathroom they want, if you don't let them play the sport they want, if you don't use the pronouns they want, then you are the terrible person. Why? Because you are threatening their mental health. That makes you the problem. This further just shows that an entitled upbringing does not prepare you for opposition or adversity or suffering or pain. And as we learn from the book of Job, perspective and humility prepare us for suffering, but pride and entitlement destroy us in suffering or opposition or adversity or pain. And so Christians in the house, we cannot make the same mistake. We can't make the same mistake of the previous generations and we can't make the mistake that Job's wife is making. We must have perspective. We must have humility that all we are and all we have is from God. This perspective gives us humility. Humility to face opposition, to face suffering, to face loss. A humility for when we do engage the transgender community that we do this with love and respect and grace, but also truth. Remember Job did not call his wife names, but he still called her out. We don't call people names, but we do call out godlessness. And Job shows us this fourth important difference. He says at the end of verse 10, he says, in all of this, the scriptures tell us, in all of this, Job did not sin with his lips. What comes out of your mouth is from your heart. The Bible is saying that Job did not sin at all here. Because what we see here is that when faced with suffering, Job did not make excuses to sin. He kept his innocence. And suffering, when you suffer, if you do it in faith, you will not have an excuse to sin. But we'll see our innocence kept. Because suffering grows our faith by showing us the difference between excuses and innocence. Job did not sin when he had all of the worldly excuses to reject God. Even in the midst of this he kept his innocence because he did not make excuses So many people in their suffering make an excuse to sin Whether through acting out in revenge or causing more pain So often people in their pain they lash out in their anguish and in their anger and they end up sinning They do what Job's wife Wanted Job to do. They cursed God. And for the Christian, for the Christian, for the faithful Christian, we can't begin to think about suffering without considering the suffering that Jesus went through. This is why the Christian approaches life and suffering so differently, because we have a Savior who not only suffered, but He suffered for us. Need I remind you that when Jesus was literally being nailed to the cross, He was covered not just in a skin disease, His flesh was torn open because He had just been tortured? His flesh was gaping open as he was being nailed to the cross. It was in this state that Jesus died for us with open bloody wounds covering his body, the hammer coming down on the nails that pounded through his flesh, through his hands and his feet as he hung there on the cross for us in our place through it all Jesus kept his integrity he kept his identity he kept his perspective he kept his humility he kept his faith he kept his innocence even in his greatest moment of suffering and it was in this that Jesus said something and it was the thing that changed my heart in the midst of this is when Jesus cried out to God and he said father forgive them for they do not know what they do. This is why Jesus is better than Job. This is why we ultimately don't look to Job, we look to Jesus. We don't rely on a story like Job, we rely on the gospel of Jesus. That is the center of our faith. That is the core of our identity. Job suffered, although he was righteous, but Jesus suffered for the unrighteous, for me and for you. And as we've said before, the best way that you can prepare for pain and suffering in this life is not by being inspired by a story like Job, it's by having faith in Jesus Christ. For it's in our faith, in the risen Jesus, that we can be prepared. Because what the Holy Spirit does is he build in us to be a sanctuary. He builds us as a church to be a sanctuary, and it's a strong tower. It's a tower that can weather the ups and downs of life, the pain and suffering. It's a tower, it's a sanctuary, where we have it because that's who we are in Christ, and we have it when we come together, that we can celebrate the highest of highs, and we can mourn with those who are in the lowest of lows. Why? Because through it all, Jesus is building his church. He's building us to be his church. He's building in us to be a sanctuary to show the world something different, something that shines light in a dark world, something that can weather the storms of suffering and pain and something that can celebrate like none other, because that's who God is making us to be. And so, as I said last week, you may not feel like you need it right now, but in this broken world, you may come to a point of pain and suffering. And so, like Job, don't rely on a story like his, look to your faith, faith in Jesus. Amen. What I want you to do is I want you to bow your heads for a moment. And if you could just not tune out, but just listen to me for a second. The story of Job is not a story you are just supposed to sit there and listen to a preacher preach about. This is a story that you, as a follower of Jesus, you must wrestle with in your own soul. And I want you to do that right now. I want you to consider Job and what he went through, the faith that he had. I want you just to consider and wrestle with this for a moment. Father, we come before you. Lord, you are strong. Father, you are over all. So, Father, we do, even if it comes with a level of mystery, we'd rather have you, God, who allows this to happen, rather than a God who is helpless when it happens. So, Father, we do look to you in all things. And I pray, Lord, and I thank you, Father, that by Jesus, through the power of the Spirit, through your Word, you are building us. You're building in us a sanctuary, and you're building us to be a sanctuary. I pray, God, pray that the light of this church and every gospel preaching church shines brightly in this world to show the world something different, something better, something that can stand the weather of opposition, the weather of suffering, and something that can celebrate the love that you've given to us in Jesus. So, Father, we do pray that you'd build in us to be a sanctuary. For your glory, we do pray these things in the precious, perfect, and powerful name of Jesus. Jesus. And everyone said, Amen.

The Lie Of "Love Is Love" Sermon Series: Calling Out Cultural Lies Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: 1 John 4:7-12 Transcript Today is the day that the Lord has made. So let us rejoice and be glad in it. And everyone said, Amen. So the cultural lie that we're going to call out today, I will admit to you, may feel or come across like we are picking on something that's not even an issue or really relevant today. And it's this, the lie of love is love. Now again, it may seem like as a society that we are beyond this, that no one says this anymore. That's so 2010 and here we are in almost 2025. Listen, I understand that sentiment to an extent, but that is exactly why we're calling this out. The reason no one really says this anymore is because our culture has so bought into it. It's now just a rolling assumption in our society. Love is love at face value is a non-statement. We all know this. But we also know that this non-statement was one of the most powerful assertions made in the last generation. This three-word phrase became a rally cry that tipped the scales of our culture and influenced the mind of a generation to embrace homosexuality and affirm gay marriage. But of all the human interactions and all the emotions that we have, love is something we need to get right. So here's a question that I want to place before you. Is love a uniquely human experience in the sense that it is a transcendent aspect of our existence? Let me meaning, is love simply a physical emotion or is it a spiritual encounter? Is what we call love simply a series of complex chemical reactions refined throughout evolution used to motivate our desire to propagate our species and protect our genes? Is that what love is? See, I think in your hearts, you know. You know that love is not just a fundamental principle of what makes us human. Love is a statement to our spirit, from our spirit, that there's more to life than just the physicality within us or the material world around us. And scripture, what scripture does is scripture gives us words to know and to say what our heart knows deep down. That love is from God. And one of the best paragraphs on love comes from a letter that one of Jesus' disciples wrote. His name was John. So please turn with me, not to the gospel of John, if you're newer to the faith, not the gospel of John, but to the letter of 1st John. We're gonna look at verses 7 to 12 of chapter 4 now again, this is the letter of John not the gospel John This is later on in the Bibles if you want to use the Bibles that we provided that's on page 1304 Now as you turn in there just some quick context John wrote this letter John the Apostle not John the Baptist John the Apostle when he wrote this he was more than likely the last living of the twelve original disciples. He was originally the youngest of the disciples, but now he writes this as an old man. John was once seen as the kid brother of the twelve disciples, but now he's seen as a leader in the early church. And so when you read this letter, he reminded this came from a man who walked with Jesus. He talked with Christ. He knew what Jesus looked like he knew Jesus mannerisms. He knew the texture of Jesus hair John John was the only one there of the disciples when Christ was crucified John saw Jesus die And now John himself is in the sunset of his life a remarkable life Some other point we'll have to talk about it, but John is coming to the sunset of his own life and he writes this letter, a seemingly open letter to all Christians, because when he says the beloved, he's speaking to fellow Christians. When he addresses the beloved, he's talking about those who are loved by God, us included. And so with that, would you hear God's word? 1 John 4:7-12 7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. Amen. This is God's word. Let's pray. We'll continue. Let's pray. Father God in heaven above, God, you are love and out of your love, you sent your son to be the atoning sacrifice so that we wouldn't have to pay the price for our sin. And not only that, but that we'd be restored into our right relationship with you and with each other. So we ask here and now, Holy Spirit, that you would descend upon us and help us to know the words of this message, words which you have inspired. And we do pray these things in the name of the God of love. And everyone said, amen and amen. So church, as we look at this one passage here today, I wanna draw just one main idea that I think we see in our text, and it's this. God is love, and we know this because of Jesus Christ. If someone says, love is love, we get to respond by saying, oh no, it's so much better than that. God is love. And while that statement in and of itself is true, taken in isolation, it's not the fullest picture. Because what God? Which God? Well, thankfully, the scriptures do give us the fuller picture. The fuller picture is this, is that God is love and we know this because of Jesus Christ. So let me just say one thing. If you are gay, or if you have gay family members, I want you to know we're not here to pick on anybody. We're here to pull people out of darkness and into light. This is done out of the most sincere, deepest love. Love for God and love for you. So as we look at this passage, let's examine a couple things about love. First thing, love is known in our spirits. We're gonna look at verses 7 to 8 for that. Then we're gonna see that love is shown in our Savior. We're gonna look at verses 9 and 10 for that. And then we'll close it up by looking at this. Love is completed in our connections. We'll look at verses 11 and 12 for that. So let's get into it Firstly love is known in our spirits Go back to your Bibles verse 7 beloved Let us love one another Okay, so scripture right there is telling us that love isn't just for your marriage. It's not just for your family It's to be shared with your church family with fellow Christians. Because remember, John is speaking to Christians, and he tells us to love one another. See, you thought loving your in-laws was hard. Try loving Christians who have a different political opinion. But there is no exception to this. The church should be marked by love, the love that we have for one another. The Bible says, beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God. And whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God because God is love. So a couple things real quick. You're going to see here that the apostle, he directly connects love with the knowledge of and a connection with God. So here's the critical idea you need to understand this is where the English language is going to fail us. This is where our Western worldview is going to point us in a direction that this text is not going. For Scripture and for the ancient world, there were many words that we in English can only translate as the one word love. It's utterly ridiculous that I have to say I love my dog and I love my kids and love that one word is the only word I can use and I have to use it for both. Do I love my dog? I do. I really do love my dog. And do I love my kids? Most of the time. Of course, yeah, I mean I love my kids, but we all know that's not the same See the ancient world the ancient world was much more careful with this word love than what we are See when John wrote this letter In his world. He was able to draw from a number of different words That we can only translate as love. Let me let me show you some in his world, here's at least three that he could draw from. There was philo, or philos. This is the love of friends or brotherhood. I see my friend Brandon out here. I can truly say I love Brandon. And I can truly say I love Tiffany, my wife. I can truly say I love Brandon. I can truly say I love Tiffany. You know that, but you know that's not the same. My love for Brandon is a love of friendship, a deep love of brotherhood. That's philo. There's also eros. This word evolved into our English word erotic. This is the love of romance, intimacy, and passion. There's also storge, storge love. Now the New Testament doesn't explicitly use that word, but it was a far more reaching and inclusive word. It was something akin to honest affection. This is where we see talking about family. If you want to go deeper on this, I encourage you to read the book, The Four Loves by C.S. Lewis. It gets more into this. But for what we're talking about today, okay, so if those were words that were available, which word is John using here? He's not using any of these words. He's using the other option, the great word, agape. Agape is the love that John is talking about here. Agape is the love that we're talking about today. It's this divine love. It's God's love. It's God's love towards us and the love that we are to have towards him and through him to each other. We can't know agape if we don't know God. That's what this passage is saying. Listen here. It's not saying that atheists and non-Christians can't know love. Anyone can know Philo or Eros or Storge love, but agape love, that's something different. That's the sense deep down. It's what we know in our spirit that shows us and reminds us and confirms us we do have a soul, that we are more than just simply the most evolved species on the planet. Love, agape, is known in our spirit because it reminds us that we are spiritual beings and that there truly is a transcendence to our existence. But it's not just known, it's shown. It's known in our soul, but it's shown in our Savior. It's shown in our Savior. Our passage continues, verse 9. It says, In this, the agape of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him. In this is agape. Not that we loved God, but that he loved us. And he sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. This is where the Bible gets so beautiful, guys. This is where the Bible doesn't just give us a definition of love, it gives us a picture. We're not left with just a philosophy of love, but we get to experience it. God is love, but make no mistake, this isn't a love that's up for grabs by any religion, but only Christianity, because God's agape love is most magnificently seen in the person and the work of Jesus Christ. Friends, the Bible doesn't just give us a theology of love, it gives us history to support it. Not just a thought, but something tangible. If you want to know love, divine, transcendent, agape love, then we can only look to Jesus Christ. Let me read these verses again. Verse 9. In this, the agape of God was made manifest among us. The word manifest just means evident or revealed. In this the love of God was made manifest among us that he sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him. Verse 10, in this is agape. Not that we love God, but that he loved us. And he sent his Son to be the propitiation, meaning the atoning sacrifice for our sins. Jesus Christ is God's great I love you to a world that is rejecting him a scripture also says for God So loved the world that he sent his only son But listen to me Jesus Christ did not come just as a symbol of love He came as a sacrifice for sin. Oh The world can accept Jesus as a symbol of love a symbol of love among many But he's more than that. He's a sacrifice for sin. He is the fulfillment of the promise that not only can we have eternal life, but that we can have reconciliation. We can be made right with God, not just made right as in a friendship with God. We can have God's agape love, a relationship with God restored. We can know true love, but this is only through Jesus Christ, who He Himself is the personification of God's agape love. And this leads to the last thing. Love is completed in our connections. Go to verse 11. If God loved us, we also ought to love one another. Stop right there for a second. Just kind of seems reasonable and right, doesn't it? God's great love poured out on us as we were still rejecting him. If God loves us that much, how can we not turn around and share that love with others? Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has seen God. If we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. There we have it. There we have it. Our great response to God's love for us. Listen to me. The great response to God's love for us is not simply that we love him back. Our great response to God's love is that we love one another. We can't see God, but if we truly love one another, that's the next best thing for God abides in us. It's easy to say we love God. I've heard, I've heard people say, I love God who have got nothing to back that up. It's easy to say we love God, but scripture tells us if you truly know God's love, then you will love others, starting with your church and starting with fellow Christians. This is why not just church attendance, but church involvement is key. When we love others, the Bible says this, it says God abides in us. God abides in us. You see that in your passage here? I'm gonna let you in on a little secret here. This is just for us. I'll just let you in on something here. If we love one another, God abides in us. Do you know why it says that? Because it takes God's strength to love some people. Amen? The Bible says God abides in us. And this is also because this is how God's love is perfected. You see that in your Bibles? It says perfected. What does the Bible mean here when it says perfected? Well, don't think of perfection in terms of pristine. Think of it in terms of completion. God loves, abides in us when we love others and we connect with others, then we see God's love fulfilled, that is brought full circle. So what about love is love? Let's go back to that. Now, we've been saying in this series, the thing about lies is not only do they crumble under the weight of truth, lies crumble under the weight of their own deception. And so, if you are listening, you're going to hear me not once say, love is love is a lie because the Bible says so. I don't need to say that. And the world at large doesn't buy that argument anyway. We're gonna see that love is love is a lie simply because it doesn't hold up to the weight of its own deception. The weakness of love is love is evidence. It's the first thing we'll look at. The weakness is evident. Love is love is a circular statement and definition. Simply alone, it's a non-statement. It's like saying a table is a table, but we all know this circular statement proved to be very powerful for a generation that was eager for some form of revolution. The weakness is evident, but let's talk about the deceit, because the deceit is extensive. So let's look at this first point. It was agenda driven. When first said, love is love, never meant that all love is valid Maybe some of those meant that when they first said it, but it wasn't originally thought that by those who first bought into it Its primary purpose and we all know this was to normalize the love between two people of the same sex But here's why it was so dangerous Love is love what it tried to do is it tried to take phylos And eros and storge and it tried to elevate those loves to a gape status and that's dangerous and that leads people astray and that confuses people about God's love. It was agenda driven. The other reason it was so deceitful is because it was unchallengeable. We weren't allowed to critique it. We weren't allowed to critique it. Love is love began a trend of demonizing those who wouldn't follow suit with where progressive culture wanted society to go. Without even their critiques being heard, people who dissented were immediately labeled as hateful and bigots and homophobes. To criticize love is love was social suicide, which is why so many pastors were so silent. It wasn't because they affirmed gay marriage. It was because they didn't want to diminish their social credibility. It was unchallengeable. Also, it's proven to be a Trojan horse. No longer used to validate homosexuality. Now, now that love is love is ingrained in our culture, its application is limitless in sexual deviancies, as we're going to see in a moment. But church, you got to hear me on this a massive a massive lesson to be learned and learned in all of this is that circular definitions are Problematic not because they don't say anything But because they can mean anything Meaning they can lead to any definition Now here's what's fascinating to me What you're gonna find is that they're gonna be you're gonna find a growing number of LGBT websites and influencers Who are beginning to openly say it's time to retire the phrase love is love and their argument for me is Fascinating it's not it's not just because it's old, but they're saying that it's outdated Because love is love is not inclusive enough anymore the argument is that love is love was used in the culture war to win the culture war to normalize a relationship between two members of the same sex. But now, the fight for acceptance and normalcy is far beyond that. If love is love, then love between adults and minors is valid. If love is love, then love between humans and animals is valid. If love is love, then love between family members of the sexual revolution is polyamory. Not polygamy, that's too close to religion for people. Polyamory, polyamory, many loves. It's talking about group relationships. Meaning, if love is love, then why does it have to be only between two people? Can't three people love each other? Can't more than that? Love is love, right? See, the deceit of love is love is extensive, and there's so much more that we could examine, but let's look at this last one. Love is love proves that gaslighting is particularly effective upon a culture that values revolution over revelation, meaning we know what we want, and it's not truth. Revolution over revelation, meaning we desire the perception of progress rather than the proclamation of truth. In our world, we would rather have social acceptance than logical consistency. When the phrase, love is love, is rejected, if you're brave enough to do that, you'll notice that the rebuttal and the defense is either an emotional plea, invoking the label of hate, which is really just bullying. Or as we see more and more, it brings about gaslighting. Now what's gaslighting? So for one, it's become such a popular term that gaslighting was a 2022 Marion Webster's word of the year. Here's one definition. Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person causes someone to question their sanity memories or perception of reality Here's one way. I saw it play out recently. I was watching this debate online I was watching this conversation happening between these two people and they were discussing what is without question the most pressing Popular and perplexing question of our day No, no, it's not what happens beyond the event horizon of a black hole. It's not that question It's not is there really only one electron in the entire universe? Do you know there's a an emerging theory that says there's only one Electron in the entire universe and this one electron is moving at an infinite speed infinite speed back and forth through time No, no, no. No, it's not either of those questions. The most pressing popular question of our day is, what is a woman? See, we're not evolved enough to talk about quantum mechanics at the popular level. We have to talk about things like, what's a woman? So this person said, what is a woman? And this person gives the current, culturally acceptable response of, a woman is a person who identifies as a woman. To which the other person responded, okay, but what is that that they are identifying as? And the person responded to them with a look like they were talking to a crazy person, and they said, they identify as a woman. And the other person said, yes, but can you define what that is? And the response that was given for given, for me, is so indicative of how off the rails we are as a people. The response they gave was this, why do you care so much about definitions? Now, I see that as gaslighting, because they were trying to infer that this person is crazy for wanting a word that we all use to have a meaning that we all agree upon. The phrase, a woman is someone who identifies as a woman, can only hold weight in a culture that already accepts circular reasoning, starting with the most famous one of them all, love is love. Because once we accept circular definitions and non-statements as battle cries for culture, then those who want to hold on to truth will either be seen as crazy, or the enemy, or both. And I'll tell you, this primarily doesn't anger me. This primarily doesn't even confuse me. This primarily makes me sad. I think this is all very sad. I think it's sad that a generation has taken the beautiful concept of love, ripped it of its transcendence and not just redefined it, but dedefined it in order to weaponize it for a culture war that leads to places we can't imagine and brought to its extreme, it will be the collapse of society. Now, listen, you know me, I'm not an alarmist. I don't speak in such terms, but think about it when everything is permissible because that's where love is. Love has to lead. When everything is permissible, then we'll see the ugly truth. That love is love wasn't a battle cry, it was a cultural cancer that we let spread unchecked because it was popular and we were too scared to speak up. But I'm here to give you good news. All is not lost. God has not yet abandoned us. I'm here to tell you it's not too late. When it comes to all the cultural lies that we are talking about in this series, all the cultural lies that we're being fed, we know the antidote, and it's truth. The counter to all lies is truth. And for those, those who have the ears to hear, wherever you are, whoever you are, the truth sets us free. And the truth is this, that God is love. And we know this because of Jesus Christ. Amen? Amen. And so let's respond as we should, with prayer. Would you please stand now? As the band comes on the stage, I just want to say something real quickly. If you are gay, or if you struggle with same-sex attraction, I want you to know something about Peace Church. You're going to get a love here that I don't think you're going to get anywhere else. You're going to get agape love, God's divine love. You'll find people here who know that love and will share that love with you. We will love you enough to tell you the truth, but I promise you it'll be truth in love. We will not lie to you. We will share the truth with you because the truth sets you free. We'll share this truth in love. And so please There's no need to be scared. In fact, I want you to be excited I want you to be prepared be prepared to hear the truth a truth that will bring you to a love You can't even fathom the love of God through the power of the gospel Church, the world has their battle cries It's time for us to raise ours. So let's pray and we'll raise our battle cry through worship.

PODCAST That's a Good Question Anchored Assurance: Tackling Anxiety Through Scripture February 20, 2024 Jon Delger & Cheyenne Werner Listen to this Episode Jon So hey everyone, welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church and a part of Resound Media. You can find more great content for the Christian life and church leaders at resoundmedia.cc . That's a Good Question is a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language.I'm Jon, I serve as a pastor as well as the weekly host of this show, and you can always submit questions to peacechurch.cc/questions . Today I'm here with producer Mitchell as always. Mitchell Hey everyone. Jon As well as Cheyenne and Ashleigh Cheyenne Hello. Ashleigh Hi. Jon Great to have you guys here today. Cheyenne and Ashleigh both lead women's ministry at Peace Church. Ashleigh also has training in the area of counseling, and so we get to have a great conversation today about some questions that have come in on the topic of mental health. Producer Mitch, you ready? Mitchell Yeah, let's start with a bigger picture question. As Christians, how do we view the human being? Are we only spiritual? Are we only physical? Are we some combination of the two? Are these two parts of us related? Question #1: As Christians, how do we view the human being? Are we only spiritual? Are we only physical? Are we some combination of the two? Are these two parts of us related? Ashleigh Simple answer. They're definitely related. Jon Crazy take. We're only physical. There's no spiritual. Mitchell Yeah, I guess maybe what would be some dangers of viewing us as either or, or maybe emphasizing one aspect more than the other? Cheyenne I think, you know, since we're our topic today is mental health, this question like very much applies, right? It's a question that we need to answer. So we need to be careful to make sure that we're addressing mental health as something something that affects our bodies and our minds, but that it also affects our spirits. And so it's all intertwined. Jon Yeah, I think sometimes Christians have made the mistake of just over, so the term is over spiritualizing, over spiritualizing everything and forgetting that we also have a body. We are at God made us both body and spirit. And actually for all eternity, we're going to have a body and a spirit put together. We are for a time when we pass away, our body's in the ground, our spirit goes through with the Lord, but ultimately we're going to have a forever body and soul together. Jesus had a bodily resurrection. His body and his spirit are together for all eternity. We will be too. So God made us that way, we're going to be that way in the end, and so we've got to address issues of this life in both body and spirit. Mitchell All right, let's jump into the listener question. It's a big one. Is anxiety a sin? Cheyenne You know, I think that's a hard one to answer because there can be a lot of ways of interpreting the question, a lot of reasons for the question to be asked. And so I think we have to be careful to just jump to say yes or no, right? Totally. To that question. Jon Totally, seems like we need some maybe definitions. What is anxiety? What is sin? All that kind of stuff. Cheyenne Yeah. So, Jon, how do you want to start us off with one of those? Jon Sure, sure. So, sin, I'll take that one. Sin is anything that is a deviation from God's design. So, anything God expressly tells us not to do or something that is good. That's what sin is. It's a, yeah, a deviation from God's design. Mitchell Westminster says that sin is any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God. Cheyenne How would you paraphrase that? Mitchell To paraphrase, I would say almost exactly what Jon said. It's transgressing against the law, so choosing to do something God said not to do, and then also failing to live up to what God has told us to do. So it's a deliberate crossing of the line and a failure to meet the line all at the same time. Cheyenne So sometimes intentional rebellion and sometimes maybe not so intentional rebellion, but just a failure to meet the line. I think, what is it? To miss the mark, right? Is I think the biblical definition too of sin. So then I guess can we move then to defining anxiety a little bit or some reading? Jon I also want to add a little bit to what you just kind of started on a very interesting road and we don't have to go too far down this road. It made me think of kind of just some of the deeper, some things that we don't even, aren't even aware of that we're doing that is sin or there's stuff that we're living in that is sin. So on the one hand, there are sort of clear transgressions of the law. The law says do not murder, you murder, that is sin. But then there's also a lot of things that if you do it and it's not from faith, as Romans 14 says, it's not from the good motives, godly motives, not good from the right heart or the right place, that can also be. You're just, you're living in sin because you're not living with the heart that God has called you to have. And just so that we're clear for everybody, you can't be perfect. That's something we've talked about in other episodes that until Jesus returns, we are people who will live in sin. Our identity is first and foremost in Christ. If you put your faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, then you are in Christ, but you won't be perfect until he returns. And so, you know, we shouldn't settle for sin. We should never just give up and just say, hey, well, you know what, I'm a sinner. I'm just going to sin a bunch until Jesus returns. No, we're fighting against sin and growing every day. And yet also just realizing that the goal of life is not to become, attain perfection in this life. The goal is to grow, but also to turn to Jesus every day and realize I'm not perfect, but Jesus is perfect and he's taken away my sin. Cheyenne I love that. And so, you know, before we move on even to defining anxiety, remembering too that there is now no condemnation, you know, to stick with the Romans for those who are in Christ, like you said. So, I think that's helpful. My mind can, again, before I define anxiety, my mind goes to, I get various versions of this question a lot of is fill in the blanks then is, you know, is this sin, is that sin? And I think, you know, we want as humans so much to be able to control and to keep ourselves from sin and from needing grace. And so I think sometimes this question is asked because we want to know we're okay. And yet the reality is that we weren't okay with God. We needed Jesus. And so addressing our sin is really, it's not a way to see if we can, if we're in God's good favor. It's a way for us to see where we, where we need him as well as all the other areas of our life. Jon Yeah, our motivation is, I love Jesus, and so I want to be more like him. I know that it makes him happy, it brings him joy when I'm walking with him. So I want to do it for those reasons. But yeah, if you're operating from a position of trying to earn it, or become perfect, then you're missing it. Cheyenne Or feeling like you won't have God's favor until you overcome this one sin and it's gone and it's never a problem in your life again. So, I just wanted to, you know, acknowledge that and bring that into it if that question is being asked partly for that reason. So I think that then when we talk about anxiety, there's a lot of ways to think about it, but maybe one helpful way to think about it would be just to think about anxiety on the one hand of worry, where the Bible says, do not worry about your life. But then on the other hand also, there's like we talked about already, that there's a physical side and a spiritual side to us, and they're interconnected and they're intertwined. And so there is a part of anxiety that is physiological as well. And so trying to address both, but not be all focused on one and not thinking about the other as well. Jon So you brought up already the passage, Matthew chapter 6 says, Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not more valuable than they? And if I skip down a little further it says, O you of little faith, therefore do not be anxious saying, what shall we eat or what should we drink or what should we wear? For the Gentiles seek after all these things. Your Heavenly Father knows that you need them. Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. Mitche llI think hearing that, if you're struggling with anxiety, what we'd call clinical anxiety, that might even sound harsh from Jesus, it might sound even unloving. So what's the difference? We were kind of talking about this beforehand, but what's the difference between biblical anxiety and clinical anxiety? Question #2: What's the difference between biblical anxiety and clinical anxiety? Ashleigh For a biblical anxiety is lacking in a faith or a trust in God and worrying about things that we want to control that we can trust God to control. The clinical anxiety is when our body's having a reaction that's either warning us of something that's unsafe or that is just, we've been in an unsafe spot before and something bad has happened, and so our body's now responding to it because that's the response it's learned. And so it's very important to know the difference of why you're experiencing anxiety, what's going on, to be able to find which one it is. Jon That's very helpful. So you're saying that the word anxiety in the clinical world covers a range of things, but it's sort of an experience. It's a feeling that hits you in certain situations. Ashleigh Yeah. So I think a lot of times people, when they think about anxiety, they think about it as just thoughts in their minds, like bad thoughts, like there's something bad that's going to happen. And that can be the case, and that can be something that is coming from, I would say, like that kind of biblical anxiety or just a fear or a worry that we have. Where the other side of that is our bodies can literally just respond to anxiety. We can, our palms can start sweating, our heart can start pounding, our breathing can change, like our bodies, even if we're not having the thoughts, our bodies can just respond. It's the opportunity for us to have the signal. It's a signal for us to then say, like, okay, what is going on? What is happening? And allowing us to become aware of, are we having thoughts that are in the vein of worrying or fearing something? Or is there something that we need to be aware of that's happening outside? Or a situation that we can either take to the Lord or that just and see what he wants us to do with it? Or just something that we need to be aware of because we need to process something that's happened more than what we already have. Cheyenne Yeah, that's good. And some of that could be could also be sin, like we said, again, the overlap between between the two types of anxiety, biblical and the physiological or clinical anxiety. I would say, maybe just from my own personal experience, I would say that the physiological clinical anxiety that I have experienced is almost always linked to or sending me a signal that I need to sit and spend time with the Lord and examine where I'm not, where I'm not trusting him and to speak truth to myself, to preach truth to myself, to spend time in the word, to spend time just figuring out what is that fear that is driving me so much to this stress and this this worry, and what's the truth, and then even especially like who is God and what what am I believing that I can do that maybe I need to be trusting Him to do instead of trying to lean on it on my own strength or power. Ashleigh Can I ask a question about that? Absolutely. So when you said that you need to spend time with him doing that, how quickly, when you recognize that you need to do that, how quickly do you feel like you get those answers? Is it within like half an hour, a couple hours, or can it be like days, weeks, or months until you feel like the Lord really reveals those answers to you? Just to kind of give us some perspective for our listeners. Cheyenne That's a really good question. I think it has depended on the day and the thing. You know, at times it's been situational anxiety where I'm about to go into a recording or to go speak on stage. And so the Lord has been so gracious to help correct that even in those moments, like almost immediately. Like I'm dealing with some vision loss right now that has kind of posed a threat to a lot of things in my life. And I would say that has taken me gradually over the last few weeks, the Lord's been helping me with just identifying some of the lies that I've been, or fears that I've seen as threats. That I've seen as threats and there's no, you know, I think of last week in Bible study, we were talking about Job and Job says, "'For nothing can thwart God's plans.'" And so just clinging to truth is like that, that this is not a surprise to God and that I might not have control over this part of my life, but he does and so I can lean on that. But it takes time. But I don't I don't think that usually something that so impacts your life is a thing you can just, you know, quick with a flip of a coin, just like turn around and have it figured out and just tell your body to stop. Stop worrying. That doesn't usually work. Feel happy, feel happy. Jon Do not worry. Cheyenne Be happy. It doesn't usually work like that. No. But I mean, I do think like in those in some of the situations, like I said, like I get I get nervous every time I go on stage and Psalm 23 reciting that to myself, I think there are things that you can do at times that are a quick, a quicker turnaround. Ashleigh Yeah, I would dare say that those would be called coping techniques. And that going to scripture or listening to hymns and songs that help our bodies and our minds calm down is a coping technique, which there's other ones that we might get to talk about a little bit too, but that's a huge one. Yeah, sure. Mitchell And just to be clear, coping mechanisms in that situation, a very good thing, right? Ashleigh Oh, very good things, yes. Jon That's an interesting point, yeah, because I've heard those talked about as positive and negative before. Do you mind saying something about that, Ashleigh? I've heard people describe coping mechanisms in positive and negative lights, but we're talking about them in a very positive light. Ashleigh So I find that very interesting because I've never heard them talked about in a negative light and never thought of them as a negative light. So I would be curious to hear if you could give some examples as to like how people view them as negative because that might help me to be able to speak more to the positive versus negative side of that. Mitchell Yeah I think not in a clinical sense but sometimes people talk about things like alcohol or some sort of addiction as a coping mechanism or some sort of unhealthy habit they have in their life as a way to cope with something. Is that kind of where you were? Jon That's kind of what I thought of that's what yeah I was trying to remember back of where I've heard it. I've often heard people just sort of casually say, yeah, that's why I drink, or that's why I smoke, or that's why I do this thing that's not good. Cheyenne I feel like the mom culture, women culture right now is that a glass of wine is how we cope with things. Jon There you go. So that's a good... Yeah, I've heard people very casually just sort of say, oh, that's my coping mechanism. Cheyenne You know, it's my glass of wine. Yeah. Ashleigh Yeah, so from a clinical standpoint, if you're a coping technique is a positive thing that you would use in order to help stabilize yourself. A negative, so a negative coping mechanism is something that is unhealthy. So it is, it's alcohol, it's addictions in various forms. It can even be turning a good thing into something that you obsess over. So I have heard people use exercise at an unhealthy level as their coping technique. Exercise in a healthy proportion is a good coping technique because it helps process some of the anxiety through your body. It helps just work things through and so that can be really good, but it anything everything in moderation so if you take anything and have it to be On a not healthy amount it like I tell my negative pendant I don't end it right. Yeah, but like healthy coping techniques are reading scripture and listening to hymns and just pray songs a lot of people talk about like taking a hot bath or reading or taking a walk or doing something that's a healthy normal thing in a normal amount of time that it would take you. You don't want to go for a 10 mile walk necessarily because that's again taking it to an extreme. And it could be used as an avoiding technique if you're just out walking for five hours or whatever it's going to be. But But yeah, just putting some healthy things around ways to process through what you're feeling and what you're thinking. Mitchell For listeners out there who might have someone in their life who's dealing with anxiety or depression, what would be some advice that we might give to them in order to walk alongside with someone as a good friend? What would be some things to avoid? What would be some things that would be like, yeah, you gotta say this, this is a really helpful way to walk alongside someone? Question #3: What advice would you give someone whose friends is dealing with anxiety or depression? Ashleigh My first thing I would say is don't try to fix it for them. Just try to be present with them. As to what to say, the best thing that we can do is lean on the Holy Spirit to guide because each person's gonna need something different and in each different circumstance when you're talking to them. So allowing yourself to be guided by the Holy Spirit and what he's put on your heart, I think is the best thing, and just being present. Cheyenne Yeah, I mean, I think just to reiterate, not trying to rush them to change or to be fixed or even like making them think that that's what you want for them. But it doesn't mean that we don't still speak truth into their lives. And depending on our relationship, you know, I think we have a little bit more, like we've been, we talked about with the Philemon sermons, that we do have a responsibility for, to have a friend, to have some of those friends that we speak hard truths to, that we don't necessarily always hold back. But I think that sometimes we make it about ourselves. And like you've said before, like not being comfortable with someone being unhappy. And that's not our job, that's not our role as a friend is to try to make sure all of our friends are happy. Cheyenne Which sounds crazy, I think, for women, because I think a lot of times we think that is what we need to do. But yeah, to just to sit in it and I think Job's friends are a good example or a bad example of feeling like they needed to just fill the silence, you know. They did great the first seven days. They did do great the first seven days, that's true, to give them some credit. Yeah, they didn't totally mess it up but they tried to fix it. Yeah, yeah. Mitchell If I can give a shameless plug here for a lady of mine that I feel like does a decent example of this. I'll end a resound podcast. I think a lady of a lady. My wife. Jon Oh, I knew where he was going, but you guys got weird. Mitchell How about this? I'll plug a resound podcast of which my wife is a part of. I feel like Mom Guilt is a really great podcast that models just two friends talking about the guilt that comes with motherhood and how to avoid going into and embracing anxiety that I can't imagine that surrounds motherhood, but is a goodway of just modeling, hey, here's friendship, walking through this together, not experts on motherhood, but just experts on being friends to one another. Cheyenne I love their podcast. Ashleigh Yeah, that's a great point, too. Being in community and sharing what we're feeling anxious about and what we're worrying about with one another can give us support and accountability and a way to process it, too, that like we don't need to just listen. Listening to the podcast would be great, but we don't need to just listen to the podcast. We can also engage in community ourselves. Mitchell Yeah, I'll speak for them. I think their whole point is that they're modeling something that they hope every woman, every mom would have a friend who they could go to and talk about escaping the guilt of motherhood and replacing it with the good news of the gospel. But we're talking about this podcast. That's a good question. So maybe another question would be, what should someone consider when seeking medical care or seeking care from a doctor? Question #4: What should someone consider when seeking medical care or seeking care from a doctor? Jon We'll be right back after this break. Elizabeth Hi, I'm Elizabeth, one of the co-hosts of MomGuilt, a podcast with new episodes every Monday. MomGuilt is a podcast about the daily struggles of motherhood. Stephanie and I share real experiences of MomGuilt and how we have found freedom from that guilt through the gospel. Listen to us on resoundmedia.cc or wherever you find podcasts. Cheyenne I mean, a couple of things that come to mind would be how long they've been feeling this way, if there's mental health issues in their family. I think sometimes, you know, we don't want to become so quick to go to medication that we're not sitting and considering what sinful role might there be and how might community and the tools that God has given us, prayer, the Bible, how might some of those actually really be the only thing that we need. thing that we need. But it's sometimes we do need some medication or need some help, need a counselor to help us process through those things, to even be able to sit and to focus on a passage of scripture or to pray to the Lord and in a way that's like coherent and we feel like our thoughts are somewhat organized. And so I think that that's it is still good if you've evaluated all that to go ahead and yeah reach out to your doctor and talk to them and bring up bring up those things and I don't know what else would you say Ashleigh? Ashleigh I think you've you've hit it on a lot of the big things I think that for me I would encourage somebody to seek talk to their doctor and their doctor is going to guide them through a lot of questions. They're not just going to hand them, if you have a good doctor, they're not just going to hand you anti-anxiety medication just because you say that you've experienced some anxiety. But if your body's having these reactions and these responses, when you're not actually in an unsafe situation or in a harm's way, that's a good time to explore being on medication so that your brain and your body can be calm enough to process through so that you don't use the medication to avoid processing through what's going on in your mind and your heart but that it is it's a tool to help you be able to do it a clear and in a better way. Cheyenne Yeah and sometimes I think the doctor might just prescribe something really low dose and it might just be even a season of your life that you only need it for a couple months. That's been my experience is that I've not had to take it long term and it's been just helpful, like you were saying, to just settle my brain so I could process things and not have to be on it long term. Jon I think the way you said that, Ashleigh, was really helpful about that. It's not, it helps you get to a place where you can process the issue. It's not the actual solution itself. It's something that helps you. Or one way I've said it, I've talked to people about it, is that it's one of the tools in your belt, you know, amongst other things, like we've already talked about talking to Christian friends, praying, reading scripture, being a part of a body of believers. All those kind of things are things that can help. Medication is one thing that can help. Jon It's not, but if you treat it as, I have this issue, I have anxiety, and the solution is to say this pill will fix me. I would say in almost any situation, not even just anxiety, just life in general, that's usually not gonna work. You need a lot of tools, you need a lot of things involved to help you through something. Cheyenne Agreed. Well, I just think, I don't know, as you're saying that, I'm just even thinking about Jesus when He would heal. Sometimes He would heal them, but what He said was, your sins are forgiven. And so just how He addresses not just our physiological needs, our body's needs, but tying back again to that first question we talked about, but our spiritual needs too. So that, yeah, isn't a fix and then we don't have to sit and do the spiritual, like address our spiritual needs do. We need both. Mitchell What scripture passages speak to this topic or might someone turn to for encouragement? Question #5: What scripture passages speak to this topic or might someone turn to for encouragement? Cheyenne Well I think Matthew, the one for Matthew is a good one. I actually have that on my shirt today. Matthew 6. I think, you know, cast your cares on the Lord for he cares for you. Psalm 121, Psalm 42, Psalm 23, so many of the Psalms, but I could probably go on and on. What do other people want to share? Jon There's a passage that I often quote to myself when I'm going through something that I'm afraid of, and it's Isaiah 41:10. It says, fear not for I am with you, be not dismayed for I am your God. I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. I just sometimes will recite that in my head. Sometimes before I go up to preach or any just a variety of situations. Ashleigh Verses that talk about being strong in the Lord are ones that have helped me with anxiety that I've experienced. So I think of Joshua 1, 9 where it says, be strong and be courageous. But then the other one that has stuck with me for so many years, and it doesn't talk about being not being anxious, but is Psalm 27:14. A lot of anxiety comes from fear of not knowing where the what's going to happen in the future. Right. And so I've often heard it talk about how, like, shame and guilt is focusing on the past, and anxiety is focusing on spoken youth focusing in the future and Psalm 27:14 says, wait on the Lord, be strong, take heart and wait on the Lord and that has been one that I'm able to tell myself on a regular basis when I feel that anxiety welling up over whatever it might be. I can just remind myself that I can wait on the Lord to provide, to guide, to direct whatever it is I'm going to need and I can be strong in that. Jon Psalm 77 is one of my favorite passages to go to when I'm having a hard time. But I think anxiety is another aspect which it addresses, thinking of what you just said, Ashleigh. So he opens the psalm by talking about some of his pain. Has God forgotten to be gracious? Has he stopped giving me compassion? But then partway through the Psalm, he pivots and he says, I will remember the years of the right hand of the Most High. And I think what he's doing is he's trying to remind himself of God's faithfulness in the past to reassure himself of God's faithfulness in the future. Yes. And I feel like that's what I need all the time is just, I start worrying about these things that are in the future. And I forget completely that, you know, for the years of my life thus far, God has been good, God has been faithful. We've made it this far, but unfortunately, we are creatures of poor memories that we don't remember. God's been faithful and he's with us. Ashleigh I think the Psalms are a beautiful reminder of how we can seek the Lord in our anxiety, how we can tell him every bit of how we're feeling anxious, and that he is our wonderful counselor and will guide us through it and help us process those feelings. Cheyenne I agree. I even I think I mentioned Psalm 42 as one of the ones and what I love about Psalm 42 is the psalmist says things that we don't think we can say because he I mean essentially accuses God of drowning him and it's like, whoa. can we say that that could like, but the reality is that God knows our thoughts and you know, he knows our anxious thoughts, it says too. And, um, you know, it gives us words to say and how to come back around and correct it. Um, one of my other ones that I was gonna read is Isaiah 26, 3. You keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on you because he trusts in you. And that's another one that has, it just like brings me back to have my mind stayed on him. To confess those thoughts that I don't like, the thoughts that are driving me to anxiety, just like the psalmist does in Psalm 42. But then the psalmist also comes back and says, "'Lord is my salvation, I will again praise him.'" And so, to do that too. We could probably go on and on, I think, just bouncing back and forth, sharing these. Jon Well, this has been awesome. If I could try to wrap up, and I don't think I could summarize too succinctly everything that we just said, but to try to bring it back a little bit, the original question, I think, from the listener was, is anxiety a sin? And I think our answer is a little bit about more practical in the sense that the way that you address that is by yes. I think all of us as human beings face a lack of faith. Matthew 6 seems to draw that out. And so on the one hand, we need to grow in our faith and our trust in the Lord. And we can do that by receiving encouragement from fellow believers by studying scripture by prayer. And also we are creatures that have bodies and chemical imbalances and struggles. And so we need to also bring in other professional help, sometimes doctors and things like that. So awesome. Well, hey, everybody, it's been an awesome conversation. Thank you so much for your time and for having it. And thank you everybody for listening. We hope you have an awesome week. We hope you have an awesome week. You can find That's a Good Question at resoundmedia.cc or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Winning the Culture War A Video of That's a Good Question Video Blog Jon Delger Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Church Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 2 Creating Meaningful Traditions Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Q+A Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Bible Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 1 Jon Delger Withstand: How The Culture War Is A Spiritual Battle Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Where Do We Go From Here? Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Q & A Kelly Needham | Women's Christmas Party People Pleasing Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Are We a Christian Nation?

The Good News Foundations | Episode 2 Video Teaching Jon Delger Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Church Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 2 Creating Meaningful Traditions Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Q+A Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Bible Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 1 Jon Delger Withstand: How The Culture War Is A Spiritual Battle Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Where Do We Go From Here? Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Q & A Kelly Needham | Women's Christmas Party People Pleasing Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Are We a Christian Nation?

PODCAST That's a Good Question Life on the Line: Why We Must Fight for the Unborn January 7, 2025 Jon Delger & Mitchell Leach Listen to this Episode Hey, welcome to That's a Good Question, the podcast where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. We are a podcast of Resound Media, a place you can trust to find great resources for the Christian life and church leadership. You can always submit questions that we answer on this show to resoundmedia.cc . If you find this resource helpful, please rate and review the podcast so more people can encounter the life-changing truth of God's Word. Also if you know somebody who can benefit from today's topic or has questions like the ones that we're answering, please share this episode with them. My name's John, I'm here today with Mitch. Yeah, I'm really excited. Before we jump into this episode though, I wanna highlight something that we're giving away for free during this month as we prepare for Sanctity of Life Sunday. John, you and I, we got to work on a video, I think a really great video that we've made for churches, for Christians, to play in church services that highlight the value of human life for the unborn. And we're giving it away for free. We can't stress it enough. It's free. Emphasis on free. Yes. Yeah. So if you're a church leader, a pastor, an elder, a worship leader, anybody, and you're looking towards that Sanctity of Life Sunday service and looking for a way to try to help people understand the value of life, understand the cause, get inspired to take action as Christians. I think that is just a great way to be able to do that. You can find it on YouTube, you can download the copy that is ready-made for a service, or if you're not a church leader, then please watch and please share with friends. We think it's a great resource. Hopefully, it's super helpful. Again, totally for free. We just want to get this out there to the world, to the church, to God's church, to try to support this important cause. Yeah, or share it with your pastor. Yeah, totally, totally. On that topic, we are going to be talking about the sanctity of life today in our episode. It can be confusing, the sanctity of life. As a Christian, I think culture, secular culture, is pretty clear that they're pro-abortion, there isn't a value for the life of the unborn. They would say that life doesn't start until birth. But it can be confusing as a Christian because increasingly we're seeing more Christians, more theologians, more pastors say similar things. So let's talk about some of the reasons that they would use to maybe defend their position. They emphasize the idea of the breath of life, the idea from Genesis 2-7 where God breathes into Adam. They use this to say that life starts at birth. This helps us understand a little bit more of the context that they're coming from, but what does the Bible say? What does God say about when life starts, John. Yeah, so you're saying like in early Genesis, they're saying when Adam took his first breath, they're saying that's a reason to think that that's when life starts. Yes. Yeah, and yeah, I wanna read a few different passages that would make the opposite argument of that. And I think one thing to just remember, that's the creation of the very first human being. And God didn't obviously make Adam in the womb, he made him as an adult man, an adult male, as the father of the human race and then of course Eve comes as the mother of the human race. I'll read you a couple passages that I think say the opposite and point to the fact that life begins much earlier, begins at conception and that human beings are human beings made in God's image living in the womb. So here's Psalm 139, it says, For you formed my inward parts, you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Jump down a little bit. My frame was not hidden from you when I was being made in secret. Your eyes saw my unformed substance. In your book were written every one of them, the days that were formed for me. Okay, so the psalmist is talking about man, God's love and relationship and intimate involvement in the making of a human being in the womb? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. I've heard people refute that, and so I want to just play devil's advocate here for a second. So some people, when they hear that, they'll say, well, that's emphasizing God being sovereign over how he creates, but not necessarily saying that that's evidence of someone being a person in the womb. What would you say to that? Yeah, I think that's, so it's true that it is saying that God is sovereign over creation, but that doesn't mean that it's not also saying the other thing. So it can be saying both of those things at the same time. Yeah, the psalmist is praising God for his amazing sovereignty in creation, and it tells us something about human life that God is creating. So it can do both of those things at the same time. So here's another passage, Jeremiah chapter one, I'll start reading in verse five. "'Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. "'And before you were born, I consecrated you. "'I appointed you a prophet to the nation.'" So God's talking about his intimate relationship with Jeremiah, his plans for him, his design for him. Just one more, and this one comes from an Old Testament law. This is in Exodus 21 and it's God through Moses giving laws for the Old Testament people. And I think this just tells us something about God's value for unborn human life. So here's the law. It says, when men strive together and hit a pregnant woman so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined as the woman's husband shall impose on him and he shall pay as the judge determines. Then here's other situation if the children do get harmed, next verse, but if there is harm then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, and it goes on. Okay so this this very law tells us that you got to pay life for life. So saying you know if if a pregnant woman is hurt as a result of two guys fighting or for whatever reason then that that's a life and you took a life and there will be a consequence in line with that. So I think that law also, so all of those passages, they point to the fact again, that life begins at conception, that life is life in the womb, that that's a human being made in God's image, special, valuable, sacred. Yeah. Another one that I think of is in Luke when John the Baptist is in Elizabeth's stomach, is in the womb, and Elizabeth and Mary for the first time when she's pregnant with Jesus, and he flips. John jumps, yeah. Yeah, he's the first person to recognize the Messiah. He's the first person. There's some clear language about personhood in that passage. All right, let's move on to another question. What does it mean to be fearfully and wonderfully made? And how should this shape our view of the unborn? Yeah, so fearfully, wonderfully made, also I think of just what we're calling this, we call it sanctity of life, that's how Christians tend to talk about this topic. We don't just talk about for or against abortion, we're talking about the sanctity or the sacredness, the value, the specialness of human life. And yeah, I think all throughout scripture, Psalm 139 says it beautifully, you know, I'm fearfully and wonderfully made, but I think all throughout scripture, we see just the value of human beings that we're separate from the rest of creation. Genesis one and two says that we're made in God's image. Unlike the animals, unlike anything else in creation, we reflect God. We reflect his character. We reflect some of his attributes, we reflect his rule over the earth and the creation. We're stewards, we're supposed to take care of the world, we reflect him in that way. I even think about, one thing we didn't talk about is actually scientifically even thinking about the argument for life beginning at conception. You could read some stuff, we actually got a great article on Rezound, resoundmedia.cc that we wrote about abortion and talked about. Even scientifically, scientists will tell you that something very special happens when a sperm and an egg meet each other, when they come together, some have called it the spark of life. You know, there's a change, a new set of DNA is created at that very moment. You know, all the design needed for human life comes to be right then and there. You know, not later, it just right then and there, you got a new set of DNA that's unlike anybody else on the planet. That's all just amazing. It is. I even think about like just simple biology of, like I remember like being in elementary school and learning about like the different classifications of animals, right? That there are some beings that do like lay eggs and then there are some that have live births, right? Like, you know, humans have live birth. Like that means that whatever is inside is already living. I mean, I think sometimes we complicate this and it's, you know, you could ask a second grader, like, is that baby alive? Yeah. Was it alive before it was getting a birth? Like, yes, it's a live birth. It was already alive. Right. But yeah. Yeah. Let me ask this question, John. What role should the church play in shaping societal views on abortion? Hmm. Yeah. So as the church, you know, we are, we are ruled by God's word and we are supposed to teach and spread God's word. Right. So our role is to be faithful to the Lord and his word and to share it. So even before we talk about the church's role in sharing the truth with society, it starts with us sharing it amongst ourselves, right? So we've got to, you know, as Christians, we've got to share first in the home, you know, with our kids. I think of what Deuteronomy 6 says about, you know, parents always, you know, whether you're sitting or standing or walking or whatever you're doing, you need to be sharing the word with your kids. So it starts in the home. It happens in the church. You know, we as pastors, we gotta talk about what the Bible says about this topic, this issue. We can't run away from it. And then of course, we also do have to advocate for it in the world because the unborn are the least able people in all society to be able to advocate for themselves. Yeah. Right? They literally, they have no way to advocate for themselves. So we as Christians have to step in and speak what is true. We have God's word, which is the message from the creator, right? So we've got to share that. Yeah. So if you're a mother or father, a clear takeaway is to have a conversation about this, an age-appropriate conversation about this with your children. What would you say maybe to an elder or pastor who struggles to bring this up as you're talking about shepherding within the church. Yeah, I mean, as somebody who's preached several sermons on this topic, I can tell you, yeah, every time you get up to, no matter how strongly convicted you feel about this topic, because I do, you still get up and you still feel a little bit of that sense of fear of like, oh man, I know there's people sitting in the room that aren't gonna wanna hear this, they're gonna say, this is too political, or they're gonna say, or they just plain disagree. There's opponents to us preaching on this topic, but you've gotta know this is God's truth, this is what's true, and I've been called to disciple God's people to follow it. So let me just bring in, I mean, so just to frame the conversation about why this is so important to talk about in the church, because I can imagine people listening might be from all kinds of different backgrounds. Some are probably from a background where it's not talked about, but some are maybe like, oh man, we talk about this all the time and, and you know, why even bother talking about it more? Yeah. But, but listen to this. This is from the Pew Research Center. Uh, they did a study not too long ago. They said that only 63% of American evangelicals believe that abortion should be illegal. Okay. So American evangelicals, so evangelical is like a category of, of more conservative Christians. So this isn't even like all people who call themselves Christians. There's people who are quote unquote more conservative Christians in the United States. Only 63% of them are what we would classify as pro-life. Some of these are 35% plus that are in favor, or at least open to, probably in favor of abortion. Okay, so as pastors and elders, we've got to hear that and say, okay, there's discipleship to be done right here in my own church. We've got to share the truth, teach the truth, so that believers, followers of Jesus here understand what's true and and want to live that way. Yeah. All right, I've got two follow-up questions on that. The first is, so talking about that, I totally understand that bringing this topic up can be a little bit, not make you fearful, but it can kind of make you maybe hesitate as you're walking up to the pulpit. This is a big topic. What would you say to the pastor who knows that there's a woman or a couple in the congregation who have had an abortion? And maybe as a pastor feeling like, maybe I shouldn't bring this up because I know that this is gonna be, not just touch a nerve, but this can be something that, yeah, brings up something hard. Yeah, that definitely makes it hard as well. So every time that I preach, I can look out and I can see the tears rolling down some faces. And I know that for some of them, that's for exactly that reason. That they either are a woman who has had an abortion in their past or a man who funded or encouraged or played some kind of role in that. And it's heartbreaking for them to listen to that, but also I've gotten to have the conversation with a few of those people that have been able to come up and say, that's really, every time we talk about this topic, it's really hard for me to hear, but I'm so glad we talk about it because I live with all kinds of regret because I was a part of that. And they just know that's why we have to talk about it. So yeah, what you want to preach to that person is the truth, that abortion is the killing of a human life. And you want to preach the gospel of Jesus, that abortion is not the unforgivable sin. When they turn to Jesus, when they repent of their sin, when they put their faith in Him, they can have forgiveness. They can have salvation. They can have freedom from the guilt and the shame that they might feel related to that. Yeah, absolutely. All right, the second question is, you know, talking about, you know, that large population of evangelical Christians who would probably consider themselves pro-choice. How big a deal is that? Would the elders of a church have, just based on that alone, have just reasoning to prohibit someone from taking the Lord's table? Sure, yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think that's – so you're asking, is it a serious enough issue that a leadership team of a church, the elders, would confront a church member and say, hey, you're, you're living in sin by, by promoting or supporting abortion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's that big of a deal. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So let me, let me, I'm going to even add, add to kind of that thought about what an issue this is within our churches. So if you watch the, the sanctity of life video that we, that we produced the at resoundmedia.cc slash life. Um, one of the interviews we did was with Jim Sprague, who's the director of the Pregnancy Resource Center here in Grand Rapids, where we're at. And he shared a great stat, I think this is actually in the extended interviews beyond the first video. But he shared that 40 to 60% of the revenue for abortion clinics in our country come from Christians. 40 to 60% of the revenue for abortion clinics are coming from Christians, church attending Christians. That is, that's astounding. That's a huge amount. So, you know, like somewhere around half. I mean, if you just think about that, you know, if we want to make a difference in the world for the cause of life, what if we could cut off half of the revenue going to abortion clinics? You know, before we talk about legislation or, you know, policies or all that kind of stuff. Just, man, if we could instill the truth to our own so that our own people weren't taking part in abortions, man, half, if we could shut off half the revenue to those places, what a difference that would make. Yeah, I mean, if you're a business owner and you think about that, losing 40% of your business overnight, right, that would be crippling, right? To any organization, that would be something that would... That's going to change what you do. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great thought. That's a great way to think about this too. That one of the best ways we can fight this is to say, we're a little bit in control of their revenue by sending 40%. Right. Yeah. Right. So one of the things also Jim shared in that interview was about a statement that they use at the PRC called the the refuge They were it's a statement by the House of Refuge And they talk about the statement talks about how churches need to be a house of refuge for people who are facing this Or considering this option so you know It's another thing we can do as the church right as we can think about if you've got a young lady in your church Who's maybe having an unplanned pregnancy as maybe you know had sex outside of marriage and is now pregnant and is afraid to tell somebody, maybe she's even afraid to tell her parents, or maybe her parents are afraid that the rest of the church would find out, well, that's gonna make them think of them, all those things. We wanna be churches that the guilt and the shame does not lead to you making that choice for abortion. Instead, the guilt and the shame leads to, I wanna confess this, and I wanna receive the grace of Jesus and the grace of my church. You know, we need to be churches that lead with grace and just say, hey, you know what, that is sin, and we're sad about that, but we love you so much, and we're gonna love this child, and we don't want you to live with the guilt and the shame, we want you to have freedom from that, and we're gonna embrace you and your family, and let's do this together. Yeah, maybe you just walk me through that. If there's a church out there who, you know, tomorrow they find out that there's a young woman who is pregnant, not married, how should they approach that? What would be the right way to walk alongside? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, so I think you wanna be able to have that talk that involves, yes, admitting that this was sin, right? That we lived outside of God's design. So we've got to be able to admit that and acknowledge that and not try to, you know, get away from that fact. But then immediately, you know, as soon as we recognize this is sin and I'm repentant, I'm so sad that this happened. Now let's talk about the forgiveness and grace that comes through Jesus. Let's talk about the gospel, that having sex outside of marriage or even having an abortion, those things are not the unforgivable sin. That if you come to Jesus, you receive forgiveness. And that we as a church are not a community of perfect people or self-righteous people. We are a community of broken people who have been saved by God's grace. And so here we are, we wanna help you, we wanna encourage you, love you, support you. Don't try to hide that you're pregnant. Let's not be a church that's all about gossip or passing blame or all that kind of stuff. Let's just embrace you and your family and what do you need? Can we help you get to the doctor's office? Can we provide diapers, formula, whatever you need? How can we help you? Yeah, so would you say that person would still be able to serve in a volunteer role after something like this if they're repenting, they've confessed? Yeah, I think that's one of those things, church leaders, you're gonna have to talk about exactly where and how that works, but yeah, we're a community of grace, right? Once you've repented and received forgiveness, then we wanna embrace you and help you be a full participating member of the church. Yeah, I think there can be a stigma around it, but the reality is in most churches, there are couples who aren't married who are having sex. Just oftentimes, they don't have to, you know, the girlfriend, the female in that relationship doesn't have to live with the consequence of it. And sometimes I think when we see a pregnant woman in our church who isn't married, it's almost somehow worse because she's gotten pregnant. But the truth is there are, unfortunately, there are too many couples who are sleeping together who just kind of get away with it because there's no evidence of it, if that makes sense. Sure. So you're saying, yeah, when you get pregnant is when people find out. Yeah. So you're saying there are people living in sin that we just don't find out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. What would be a way not to go about this if you're a church? Or what would be maybe a really unhelpful way to walk alongside a woman, maybe that you've heard of churches doing or... Well, I think what unfortunately happens is people feel so much guilt and shame is that they then start considering the option of abortion because they want to make that go away. Yeah. Right? Whether that's the young woman, whether that's her boyfriend, whether that's mom or dad, who is maybe even a prominent figure in the church and doesn't want that on their name, they feel that pressure. So I think that's the wrong way to approach this, is to let whatever you want to call that guilt, shame, peer pressure, whatever, desire to protect your reputation, pride maybe, you know, to let those things get in the way I think is the wrong way to handle it. As a church, you know, another wrong way to handle it would be to just not talk about the issue, right? Instead, I think you want to just be open as a church about all of these things. That this is where we stand on the value of human life. And if you're here and you're in this situation, we love you. We're not perfect. We wanna embrace you. So saying those things out loud, letting them be true, not just with the pastor, but also even beyond into the families of the church. Those are the things you wanna have. Yeah, I think one of the things you said earlier too was not trying to hide it. I think I've heard of stories of churches where they kind of say, well, we don't want you to come until the baby's born, or we want you to, once you start showing, you can't do X, Y, or Z. And I think that can just add more shame and guilt on something that is already gonna be incredibly hard. So yeah, if you're a church. No, I think the Bible is full of examples of, yeah, hiding sin is not gonna help anything. Yeah. Confessing, repenting, putting your faith in Jesus. That's what the Bible calls us to. Yeah, I mean, the truth is all of our churches are filled with people every single Sunday who are serving, who are attending, who are sinners, who have repented from their sin, right? I mean, we're Reformed. We believe each and every day we need the gospel, that each and every day we're full of sin. And so for us to say, you know, so-and-so can't come because their sin is a little bit more, there's proof of their sin. Sure, yeah. I think is maybe a little bit silly even, you know, I'm a sinner. If that disqualifies her from coming, then man, I can't come either. Sure. Our next question is, how can churches or Christians offer better support for women who are facing these, an unplanned pregnancy? Yeah. So one of the accusations I think we hear sometimes is that you are, somebody might accuse, somebody who's pro-choice might accuse a pro-life person of saying, well, you're not actually pro-life, you're just pro-birth. Yeah. You don't care about people once they've been born. You don't care about women. You don't care about people who have been born. And unfortunately, I think there are probably, I'm sure that there are pro-life people who probably live up to that complaint. They probably behave in that way. But I don't think that's true for the majority. I know that's not true for the church that we get to serve in. I know that's not true for many pro-life people. We do, we care about the unborn baby. We also care about the mother. We care about the whole family. We wanna see health for all of those people. So I think of, you know, so we partner with ministries like the Pregnancy Resource Center that provide care not just for unborn babies, but for pregnant women. They provide care even for post-abortive women, women who've had abortions. It is an invasive procedure. I know it's downplayed often by the pro-choice side, that it's not a big deal, it's an easy solution, all those kinds of things, but it's actually a hugely traumatic experience on your body to have an abortion. Yeah, it takes recovery time, usually days. I mean, it's a big deal. So they do a great job providing care for people in all of those situations, women who are currently pregnant, women who have had an abortion, women who have had a birth, who have had their child. So we wanna, yeah, as pro-life people, we wanna provide support for all of those things and try to support the cause of life, try to support women in a way that they don't feel tempted to make that choice for abortion. Yeah, we wanna support them in all those ways. Yeah, so if you're a church having a good relationship with a resource center like the PRC or another one that's local in your area is a good first step, financially supporting them. I know that they're always, always in need of more and more funding, just it's, you know, there's never enough for that. But even as a church, you know, your deacons or whoever it is that handles, you know, your, what we would call benevolent giving or support for people who need it, having them equipped and ready to jump in when somebody's facing an unplanned pregnancy. Jump in and say, how can we help you? How can we support you? We want to care for you. And then after the birth as well, you know, what do you need? You know, you weren't planning on this. You're probably not financially prepared for this. So What kind of resources can we give you? Yeah, so there there are some good places if you're Trying to help a woman who's going through this war here would be some places that you would say we cannot direct Women to go to get care in a situation like this Like what are some institutions? I think it's it's good to even just name some of those right now to plan parenthood. Okay. Right, so the biggest provider of abortion in our country, that is not a place we wanna send somebody. Their name sounds kind of enticing, you know, that's not by accident, right? So that's actually not a place you wanna send people. They're not gonna give you advice on how to process through this and give you, you know. Right, they're gonna talk about one option. That's what they do, is they provide one kind of option. I think the beauty of places like the PRC and other similar ministries is that they talk about all of the options because there are many, you know, there's having the birth and having the child in your own family. There's giving the child up for adoption. There's lots of different, you know, there's a few different options that you have and much better options. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So just, I think it's good to just think about that as we're trying to help women make that decision, clearly saying, hey, here, you know, find a local place that is pro-life, that is gonna help a woman make a good choice, a biblical choice, and even saying, you know, there are places that you really shouldn't go because they're not gonna help you make a good choice in this. Yeah, you don't want somebody who's, they're all invested in one option, right? You wanna be able to talk about each of the options, and talk about the pros and cons, and make the choice that is healthiest. Yeah, one of the conversations that's being had, I think, culturally right now, is this idea of women's rights and even women's health. So John, do people who are pro-life care about women's health, women's rights? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's so the, yeah, the conversation gets framed as though pro-life people are anti-woman that we want to see in women not have choices, things like that. That's not the case. We love, we love the woman who is having an unplanned pregnancy. We hurt for her that she's in a situation that she wasn't planning on. And that's an enormous challenge. I can only imagine. Yeah, I can't imagine how scary that is. Life altering, right? Yeah, yeah. So we do want to provide her with help, support, and also we know that there's a life inside of her, a human being living inside of her, who does have rights, who can't speak for themselves. You know, that's one of the things I think people who wanna accuse pro-life people of only being pro-birth and not pro the rest of life. We've already talked about how hopefully that's not true and how we try to make sure that's not true. But we do get loud about the rights of the unborn, about protecting the unborn, because they can't speak for themselves. Yeah. They can't. Yeah. So we do get especially vocal for them because we have to. Yeah. Right? The Bible is really clear about injustice and God has a certain affinity for people who can't stand up for themselves. And that's something that's clear throughout both the Old and New Testament. The widows and the orphans, constant refrain in the Old Testament that God calls us people that that's part of justice is that we want to be a people who supports the widow and the orphan. Well, in our world, similar to them is people who can't speak for themselves, the unborn. Yeah, yeah. I think that's probably why you hear about it more in churches because it is such a, it's the most vulnerable population there is because, you know, about half of the population doesn't see them as people. A conversation that is had, it can be a really difficult one, is this question, should there be exceptions for abortions in some situations? Yeah, so unfortunately some unplanned pregnancies are the result of terrible and tragic things like rape or incest, the ones that are usually brought up, right? And that's awful. I can't imagine being in that situation that's so sad and my heart breaks for someone who finds themself in that situation. What I would want to say is that an additional wrong isn't going to fix that earlier wrong. Even though it wasn't your choice, even though it wasn't your desire, even though it came about through an awful and tragic situation, that is a human life inside of that woman who has undergone that terrible thing. And so no, I would say that there shouldn't be exceptions for those things. And you know my hope and my prayer, what I want to do is come alongside of that young woman and talk about that even though you weren't planning on it, even though it came out in a horror boy, this is a life from God. This is a blessing from God. This is this child. This child is not the situation that it came from, but the child is. Yeah. And I think even in these incredibly, incredibly hard situations, having that mindset, having that framework of what this is, saying that this is an unborn child, I think that even helps people have the right next step after that, saying that even though this came through an unbelievably horrendous situation, that this still is a human being that deserves to live. And there are many stories of adults who have grown up, who are the product of rape. And just hearing those testimonies of a mom who was brave enough to make a really good decision after something horrendous had happened is just a testament to the power of what God does in the womb, that it's a miracle. It's a miracle of life, and that God's the life giver, you know, He's the Zohe and that He's the one who ultimately gets to decide who, He's the one who gets to take and create it. So we know Christians care about this cause, what are some actions that they can take in response to this? Yeah, I think the first and most important action that all of us can take is to pray. We know that God responds to prayer. We know that God is in control of all things and so we must go before the throne and pray that God would protect human lives, that God would be with women who are experiencing unplanned pregnancies, and that he would give them courage, that he would give them, provide for them, that he would help them to make the choice that is the choice of life so we can pray. We can also do whatever we can to ourselves, try to care for and provide for those women in those situations, unplanned pregnancies, whether that be financially, whether that be providing of goods, whether that be providing just love and care and support. Handing down clothes. Handing down clothes and just reiterating the gospel to them, whatever situation brought them here. There is forgiveness in Jesus, there is courage and strength that comes through Jesus. So all those things. And then if we were to talk about legislation, things like that, that's going to kind of come down to what state you're in. So under Roe v. Wade, we had a federal, a nationwide situation that all of us were in, but now after 2022, after the Dobbs decision, now it's back to the states. So the states have a decision. So it depends on where you live. You know, some states are in a better situation than others policy-wise. Here in Michigan, unfortunately, we're actually in a worse situation than we were under Roe v. Wade, Proposal 3 back in 2022, led to where we actually, an abortion now is enshrined in our state constitution. And so that's going to be incredibly difficult to overcome. And so I think the real, actually, who you vote for matters. Every time you go to the polls, you have a chance to influence the policies and the outcomes in our country. And so that absolutely matters. And what I wanna say is probably for us, and if you're in a state like Michigan, probably some of the best things you can do is gonna be at the individual, at the family, at the church level. Of just trying to provide care for people to try to make that option of abortion way less interesting. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think, and this I think was always the case that we should be investing in the most powerful institutions first. So, family, church, then you look at the government, if you're not doing this at home, if you're not doing this in your local church, but all you're doing is voting, you're missing some two things. Don't not vote, do vote. But there are some key, key things that we should be investing in. There's incredible power in discipling your children. There's incredible power in the local church, in the Bride of Christ. Yeah. Well, again, resoundmedia.cc slash life. We'd love for you to have that free resource. Watch it, share it with your friends. If you're a church leader, please share it with your congregation. It's a free resource. We just want to be able to support the cause of life. Thanks everybody for listening. Thanks for the conversation. You can like and subscribe on YouTube, TikTok, or Instagram. Have an awesome weekend, buddy. Have an awesome weekend, buddy. Bye!

The Lie of "As Long As It Doesn't Hurt Someone Else" Sermon Series: Calling Out Cultural Lies Ryan DB Kimmel Lead Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: 1 Corinthians 10:23-33 Transcript Today is the day that the Lord has made. So let us rejoice and be glad in it. And everyone said, Amen. Amen. So last week we kicked off a sermon series called Calling Out Cultural Lies. And what we did last week was we looked at the lie of live your truth. We talked about how that lie is founded on a bunch of other lies, but that one lie, live your truth, is kind of like the umbrella term that validates all the other lies of our culture. If we accept live your truth as the great commandment for our culture and our time, then we must also accept that truth is relative and there's no true standard of right and wrong. Which brings us to today. Today we are looking at the lie of as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. I'm sure you've heard this. You can do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. Now, here's what I'd say to you. Going back last week, if if live your truth is the mantra of our day, then as long as it doesn't hurt someone else is the ethics of our day. That's the base moral ethic that our culture wants to abide by. Now I've know, I know you've heard this, the statement before you can do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. Meaning that apparently we as a people have to accept anything and everything as permissible quote,mas long as it doesn't hurt someone else, that is the prevailing moral ethic of our time. But here's my question for you. Do we really want the moral fabric of our society to be based on the lowest common denominator? The notion of do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else, that presupposes that it's actually possible to do something without hurting someone else or without having an effect on someone else, whether good or bad. But I think most of us have lived long enough to know that we can do nothing of consequence that won't affect others. Our actions always have consequences that spread waves far beyond our life. And I would tell you that actually one of the beautiful things of humanity, one of the beautiful parts of our human existence is how much we are truly connected and interconnected. Now, Scripture recognizes this. Scripture tells us that our actions always have consequences. But here's the reality. We as the people of God, we don't follow the lowest possible moral ethic. We seek to live to the highest possible one. We get to show the world not just a better way, but the good way. And so I invite you to turn with me to a very challenging, perplexing Bible passage. Would you please turn to 1 Corinthians 10, and we'll look at verses 23 to 33. Now that's on page 1218 if you wanna use the Bibles we've provided here. Now as you're turning there, let me just kind of catch us up to speed We call it a book of the Bible, but first Corinthians is actually a letter It's a letter that the Apostle Paul wrote to a church in Corinth, Greece now this church was full of Christians who were very young in their faith and They were at times tempted to revert to their old ways of living as they lived according to the pagan culture around them rather than living in the renewed culture of the kingdom that that Christ calls us to and so Paul Paul is gonna bring a great challenge to them he's gonna remind them that that they are above their old ways he's gonna remind them that we are called to live to the new way of Christ and so he gets to this section here in chapter 10 he gets to the section of this letter and he's beginning to talk about what it means to exercise our freedom as Christians what it means to be free people. As Christians, our faith is not about following rules. Our faith is about being in a right relationship with God. And everyone said amen. But as we'll see in this passage, Paul's whole presupposition about our faith flies in the faith of our modern assumptions about life. And so let's get into it. Would you hear the word of God? First Corinthians chapter 10, we'll look at verses 23 to 33. Would you hear God's word? 1 Corinthians 10:23-33 23 “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. 25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 26 For “the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof.” 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— 29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? 31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved. Amen? This is God's word. Let's pray and we'll continue. Let's pray. Father God in heaven above, Lord we need your guidance this morning, so please would you send us the Holy Spirit and Holy Spirit would you illuminate this passage for us. Help us to know how to live in light of this passage and in the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ which has brought us back from sin and death. We pray these things for your glory, for our joy, and for the good of our neighbor. And everyone said amen. So this is a very interesting and a challenging passage, but if I could boil it down to one statement and to one truth that challenges the modern lie of, as long as it doesn't hurt someone else, it would be this. And I'd give you this as the main point here for today. Our faith should be to our neighbors benefit. Our faith should Imagine if you would. Imagine if our society lived according to actually helping others rather than just, quote, not hurting them. Wouldn't you rather live in a society that helps one another rather than avoids one another? See, this is why I'm going to argue here today. This is why the Christian moral ethic is the greatest human ethic on the planet. In part because our faith should be to our neighbors' benefits. And I'm gonna tell ya, I always say this and I always believe it. But today, you're really gonna wanna have your Bibles open. This is a very interesting passage. So with your Bibles open, we're gonna look at it through three things. Through our faith, we should seek to, number one, bring good to others. We'll look at verses 23 and 24 for that. Then we're going to see that through our faith we should seek to bring glory to God. We'll look at verses 25 to 31 for that. And then we're going to close it up by looking at this. Through our faith we should seek to bring the gospel to everyone. And we'll look at verses 32 and 33 for that. So first thing, through our faith we should bring good to others. Let's take this one verse at a time. If you're looking at your Bibles and you see verse 23, you'll see that Paul has some quotations here. He says, quote, all things are lawful, end quote, but not all things are helpful. Quote, all things are lawful, end quote, but either way Paul quotes this to challenge it. It's like he's saying sure Sure, you can do whatever you want may not be good for you, though Sure, you you can do whatever you want may not be good for other people though And then he brings one of the hardest challenges. And not just this book and not just the New Testament, we're going to see that Paul brings one of the hardest challenges in all of the Bible. Look at verse 24, if you dare. Verse 24, let no one seek his own good but the good of his neighbor. isn't it? Seriously though, this is hard. This is hard in our world that champions our personal rights and our personal freedom. This is hard. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. So let me say this clearly. This is why the gospel brings a better ethic. Our culture says, do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else But the gospel the Christian faith actually says no Actually, what you should do is seek the good of those who are around you and that's better. Amen Amen, so church we have to decide are we going to be people of the kingdom culture or the culture of this world? Are you gonna follow the ways of the world? Are you gonna follow the mantras of our day? Or are you going to be different? See, the Bible tells us that our salvation is by grace. That word grace is basically just connected to and kind of just word means gift. That our salvation is by grace, meaning it's given to us through the gospel even though we could not earn it nor we do not deserve it. The gospel that Jesus Christ died for our sins, taking the penalty that should have been ours. Jesus dies in our place, and then on the third day, rises again. When we place our faith in that, God graces us, gives us what we do not deserve, gives us salvation. Our salvation is by grace through faith. And this is so good. This is a beautiful picture of God's goodness. My friends, God has been so good to us all the more through the gospel, giving us what we don't deserve and therefore that's what we should do for others. Bringing good to them in ways they do not deserve because God's undying goodness to us. Double-stuffed Oreos. Now, I'm going to do something here. Ah, man, who likes double stuffed Oreos? Who doesn't like double stuffed? Yeah, I do. You know what? I'm gonna call on Jim. Jim Baker, you wanna come up here for a second here, bud? If you guys didn't know, Jim Baker, Jim is one of our zone elders. How you doing, my man? As a patriarch of your family, I'm gonna give you these Oreos for you and for your family. Okay, now, you did not know I was going to call you up here. You didn't know about this. I'm sure you're way out of your comfort zone, which is exactly why I brought you up here. But you're one of our zone elders. But even being a zone elder, you're just a brother in Christ. Now, I'm going to give you this package of Double Stuff Oreos for you and for your family. And you can go and have a seat with them right now. You go ahead and have a seat. Now, here's the thing. I did not prep Jim for this, but I gave cookies to Jim. He did not earn it. And you could say he really didn't deserve it. I just out of goodness decided to bless him with some cookies. Now, imagine that I said to Jim as the patriarch of his family, I said, now Jim, those cookies are for you and for your family, but here's the deal. When you run out, I'll give you more. And when you run out again, I'll give you more. And that will never stop. Now, imagine that Jim sits down with his family and people around him are like, man, those cookies look pretty good. Hey, can we have some of those cookies? Now, what would you think if, knowing that Jim and his family have an unlimited supply of cookies they did not earn nor deserve, what would you think if they said, no, these are ours? No, you can't have any. You probably wouldn't think very good things of the Baker family, would you? I think some of you know exactly where I'm going with this. Here's the point. The goodness that God has shown to us in the gospel is unlimited. It's more than you need, it's more than you could earn, and certainly more than you deserve. God's goodness is unlimited to us. Therefore, we should be sharing that goodness even with those who don't deserve it, because neither did we. If God is going to constantly pour out His goodness upon us in an unlimited, forever fashion in ways we did not earn nor deserve, how could we, as the people of God, not take that goodness and want to share it with those around us? But let's be clear here. The goodness that we are to share, Paul clarifies in our passage, that the goodness that we share are to be things that build up other people. Build up other people. Make no mistake, when Paul is talking about building up others, he's talking about the good things. Good things are those things that truly bring people into greater alignment with God's design for us. It does not mean catering to people's sinful desires. It does not mean enabling an ungodly lifestyle just because just because something may affirm a person or affirm their identity or make them feel Comfortable. It does not mean that it's actually good for them. It does not mean that it will actually build them up Because if we enable sin what we're doing is we're tearing them down Even if they feel affirmed in it We have to do things that build people up and the things that build people up are the truly good things that at least point us towards, if not bring us closer to God. It's not good if it leads people away from God and away from His plan for humanity. Because my friends, we have to remember, we have to live according to His plan, not ours, because His plan's better. Which leads us to number two. Through our faith, we should seek to bring glory to God. Now here's where the rubber meets the road, and I really want you to have your Bibles open here, because this is a complex passage, but I think if we walk through it, you'll see what's going on here. Now Paul, Paul gives us an example of how to live this out. Now again, we're gonna try to understand their context and apply it to ours. So verse 25, here's where it starts to get thick. So here's what Paul says. He says, eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the grounds of conscience. Okay, so clarify. So in Paul's day, when you went to go buy meat at the market, sometimes that meat or not? And Paul is actually saying, it doesn't matter, buy it and eat it. Now listen, that may sound a little counterintuitive to us. Right, I thought we're supposed to live holy and pious life. Like what's going on here? It's almost counterintuitive. How can Paul say that? Well, like we say at all things here at Peace Church, if the Bible is confusing, just keep reading. Verse 26, Paul goes on to say, for the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. Okay, so Paul is quoting Psalm 24 and what he's basically trying to get at is this, is that that meat belonged to God before it was sacrificed to another God. It belonged to God first, so go ahead and eat it. Now, here he's talking about our faith that's happening in the public square, but then he goes on to discuss how this actually might play out in a private and a personal setting. So, remember, he sets a general principle and then he's going to talk about specifics. So he says this, verse 27, if one of the unbelievers, again, a non-Christian, if one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, you want to go, go and eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the grounds of conscience. Okay, he seems to be following his argument. Meat sacrificed to idols don't mean anything because that meat belonged to God first. So you're gonna go hang out with a non-christian, go ahead and eat whatever they place before you even if it's sacrificed. Now, side note, notice here, Paul does not forbid Christians eating with non-Christians. But what he's saying is that when you do, here's the moral of the story, don't be a jerk. Eat whatever is set before you and be thankful about it. But what if it has gluten in it? I don't know, Paul doesn't address that. You better ask your pastor. So now he says, go enjoy the food and enjoy the company. Be a good guest. But Paul says, okay, what? Okay, now here we go. Now it's time for the exception. He's laid out the rule. Now it's time for the exception. But Paul says in our ears perk up and we say, okay, but what Paul verse 28, he says, but if someone says to you, this has been offered in sacrifice, then do not eat it for the sake of the one who informs you. And for the sake of conscience, I do not mean your conscience, but his. Okay. This is where this is where it can get a little confusing, but it's super interesting. What's going on here. So let's recap. If you go to the meat market, Paul says, go ahead, buy whatever you want. Eat it all. If we go to an unbeliever's house, Paul says, eat whatever they give you and be thankful about it. And then he says, but if someone, if someone tells you that it was sacrificed to a false God, then don't eat it. Okay, what's going on here is we really have to understand who this someone is. And that's why when you read some commentaries, you're going to find some different thoughts on this. But here's what I believe is going on here. Who is this someone, if someone says to you? Now, it doesn't appear to be the unbelieving host. Rather, it appears to be someone else who has mixed feelings about the meat being sacrificed to another god. And Paul is saying, if someone has mixed feelings about it, don't make a big deal about it, just don't eat it in front of them. Okay, so what's the logic going on here? This doesn't make, I mean, Paul's going in different directions, at least it seems like, right? Okay, so we can go to the meat market, we can buy meat sacrificed to a foreign god, okay, we go to someone's house who's not a believer. They offer us meat sacrifice to a foreign God Apparently we can eat that but if someone tells us that the meat is sacrificed now, we can't eat it Paul What is going on here? See I think what happens is and I did the same thing You're viewing this all through the lens. This is what we do here You're viewing this all through the lens of what you are free to do. That is not the lens that Christians engage this world with. That's an American way to approach this. But we are kingdom people first. See, what's going on here? He says all this because you have to remember our prerogative is that the example we are to set is not about exercising our freedom. It's about building up someone else. If eating this meat is going to tear down someone else's conscience, we're not going to do that. If people are fine with it and we're fine with it, then we're free to do that. If someone doesn't... Now, what's it mean for here today? Here's some examples. If someone doesn't think that Christians should drink, then don't drink in front of them. If someone doesn't think that Christians should go trick-or-treating, don't send your kids to their door for free candy on October 31st. In our freedom, and this is where Christians have to be so charitable to one another, in our freedom, some things are a matter of conscience in the Christian faith. These are things that in our Christian freedom, the Bible neither commands nor forbids in the scriptures. And I've asked our guys at our podcast, we have a podcast called That's a Good Question. I've asked our guys to talk about this a little bit more, about this notion of Christian freedom. So make sure you tune in this week. So when it comes to this notion of things that Christians are free to do that are a matter of conscience, again neither commanded nor forbidden in scripture, what are we to do with these sorts of things? Now I love what one man said about this. This is a man from about over a thousand years ago. His name was Ecumenius. Now Ecumenius was a Greek bishop from around 900 AD. And he was reading this passage and he wrote a commentary on it. And this is what he said about this very passage we're looking at. He said this. He said, the question is not whether you are eating with a clear conscience, it's whether what you are doing is of benefit to your brother. You may be fine doing something, and that's all good and dandy, but you also need to be asking, is this for other people's good? Does this build up those around me, or does it tear them down? Paul is saying, I know your conscience may be just fine in this matter, but theirs isn't, so care about them. Care about them before you go and flaunt your freedom. But here's the thing, he's going to throw another curve at us. Does this conflict with Paul says in the very next line, look at verse 29, the second half of verse 29. He says this, he says, for why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I gave thanks? Okay, so we really have to follow this at Peace Church. We're going to be Bible study years, so let's make sure we study this well. This seems like such an odd thing coming right after him saying, don't eat meat sacrifice if someone else has a problem with it. That's what he said in verses 28 and 29. But when we read this in its fuller context, it seems that what is going on here is that Paul is connecting this thought here. Why should other people's conscience inhibit my liberty? He's connecting this thought here back to the more general principle we find earlier in the passage in verse 27. He's not referencing the exceptions of verse 28 and 29. A 29 a meaning the first part of verse 29. He seems to be saying, God has called me to freedom. And just because some people in principle disagree with me doesn't mean I need to follow what they say all the time. But when I am with them, I will seek their good above my own freedom. And then Paul, Paul lays it down. He sums it all up with one of the most powerful verses in the New Testament. And this verse kind of gives us the overarching principle of our lives. Look at verse 31. He says, So whether you eat or drink, whatever you do, Panta estaxante u poeta. Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Panta estaxante u poeta. If you could translate that word for word, what it would say is, all things into the glory of God, you must do. We do all things for the glory of God. What are we free to do? We are free to glorify God. We don't have to follow our sin nature anymore that seeks to glorify ourselves. We get to do things that glorify God, because my friends, here's what you need to know. To glorify God is not a burden, it's not God you're glorifying. It's probably yourself. And you were not meant to bear the weight of all the glory of the universe. If you think it's a burden to glorify God, then you're either not glorifying God or you're in a not-right relationship with God. And you're not doing it in the ways that God has commanded. To glorify God is a joy. I love what the Westminster Shorter Catechism, this was a document written to help people understand their faith and Westminster Shorter Catechism, the very first question that it asks, it asks a series of questions. The very first question it says is this, it says, what is the chief end of man? Now I know we don't talk like that anymore. Here's what it was saying, meaning what is humanity's highest purpose? Answer, man's chief end is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. To glorify God is not a burden. To glorify God brings us joy. Christians, God is the essence of goodness and therefore bringing him glory is the highest good and when we do that which is the highest good it Should bring us the most amount of joy Do all to the glory of God is the antithesis of as long as it doesn't hurt someone else So let's be clear on something The moral ethic of as long as it doesn't hurt someone else isn't just the lowest Common denominator as far as moral ethics go. I'm going to argue something even stronger here today. I'm going to argue that as long as it doesn't hurt someone else isn't the lowest common moral denominator. I'm going to argue it's not even moral. It's not a good thing. I'm going to argue it's not moral to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. I just happen to think that you and I were made for more than that. So let's go ahead and let's take this, let's take this statement to task. See, as long as it doesn't hurt someone else, may come across as a tolerant statement and oh man, do we love our tolerance in America, don't we? Oh, we just, we can't get enough of it. It may come across as a tolerant statement, but it's actually veiled in a false compassion. When you dig into that phrase, it's actually quite selfish of a statement. See, what it's really saying, what it's really saying is, is I want you to be able to do what you want so I can do what I want. What it's actually saying is, I don't care if you even hurt yourself as long as you don't hurt me. What it's actually saying is, I won't call out your sin if you don't call out my sin. See, it's actually quite selfish of a statement, see, but the gospel, the Christian faith, calls us to something so much better. The gospel says something so much better. See, the culture selfishly says, do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else, but the gospel selflessly says, do whatever you want as long as it builds up someone else See the culture says do what you as long as it builds up someone else the culture says do what you want as long as it Doesn't hurt someone else The gospel says do what you want as long as it brings glory to God, which is the highest good The culture says do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else, but it is actually saying I don't care if you hurt yourself as long as you don't infringe upon me. Whereas the gospel is actually saying, do what you want as long as it seeks your flourishing, builds the faith of others or glorifies God, brings you joy and is for the good of your neighbor. The gospel calls us to something so much better. This is what the gospel of Jesus Christ calls us to, and this is why the gospel of Jesus Christ gives us a better moral ethic, and this is why, through our faith, we should seek to bring the gospel to everyone. Look at verse 32. Paul goes on to say, give no offense to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God. Listen, my friends, basically what he's saying is don't openly seek to offend anyone inside or outside the church. And then he shows us that he himself is trying to live up to this example. When he says, verse 33, have your Bibles open, verse 33, he says, just as I try to please everyone, hold on, stop right there. I just love how Paul is just really honest here. I try to do this. It's almost like he's saying, fall short sometimes, because we're human. I try to please, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved. And there we have it. There we have it, my friends. The highest good is to bring glory to God, and the greatest good we can do is to see others be saved. And we do this by bringing them the gospel, so that they could be saved and they could live according to a better moral ethic. And this is the gospel. That Jesus Christ died on the cross as the atoning sacrifice for our sins, that paid for our sins, and his resurrection from the grave is the guarantee that his promises are true. That we can have not just eternal life, but we can have reconciliation, meaning we can be brought back into a right relationship with God again, and this is because of the gospel of Jesus. Jesus did not do whatever he wanted as long as it didn't hurt someone else. Rather, Jesus gave up his very life for the good of others, paying the penalty for their sins by his blood. And now to follow Christ means we do not sink to the lowest common denominator as so many in our culture would have us do the whole as long as it doesn't hurt someone else rather we the people of God sons and daughters of the kingdom we rise to the highest good which is to live unto the glory of God and for the salvation of our neighbors not because we're forced to because we're free to God has been so good to us let us do good to others so that they may too know God's goodness, because that's where following Christ should lead us. And our freedom should build our neighbor's faith. Amen? Amen. Church, one of the things that we get to do as a church, as a family of God, is respond to God by coming to the table that he invites us to. So we're going to celebrate communion. Let's do that now. Would you please bow your heads and let's pray together.

What Is Faith? Foundations | Episode 3 Video Teaching Jon Delger Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Church Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 2 Creating Meaningful Traditions Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Q+A Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Bible Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 1 Jon Delger Withstand: How The Culture War Is A Spiritual Battle Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Where Do We Go From Here? Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Q & A Kelly Needham | Women's Christmas Party People Pleasing Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Are We a Christian Nation?

Why Church Membership Ministry Jon Delger Multiplication Pastor Peace Church Published On: May 24, 2024 Why do churches have membership? Is this a biblical idea, a practical idea, or an attempt to operate like a country club? Let me share a few reasons I believe many faithful churches around the world continue the practice of church membership. What does the Bible say about church membership? While the Bible doesn’t use the word “membership,” there are many teachings of Scripture that are best lived-out through the process of membership. 1) The New Testament assumes Christians are part of a local church. A majority of the letters of the New Testament are addressed to churches or church leaders, and none of them are addressed to Christians flying solo. In the words of J.I. Packer, “The New Testament knows no such thing as the unchurched Christian.” Membership is how we formally identify ourselves with a local body of believers. 2) Christians are designed to live, grow, and serve in community. The phrase “one another” is used more than forty times in the New Testament (i.e. love one another, forgive one another). These commands don’t refer to how Christians treat people in the world, but each other. Scripture is filled with images of the church as a body (1 Corinthians 12), a building (1 Peter 2), and a flock of sheep (Acts 20). Membership is how we commit to living, growing, and serving together . 3) Church leaders need to know their flock. Shepherds will one day have to give an account for how they cared for the flock of God (1 Peter 5). Membership is how leaders know who it is they are to care for, pray for, encourage, and challenge. The membership process also enables leaders an opportunity to make sure people entering our community have received the gospel and desire to live with Jesus as their Lord, Savior, and Treasure. 4) Membership is what makes the church a covenant community. Covenant isn’t a word we use every day. However, many will be familiar with hearing marriage referred to as a covenant. Becoming a church member isn’t quite the same as getting married, but just like marriage, membership is a relationship sealed by promises. In membership, we make promises before the Lord and to each other to walk with Jesus, help others walk with Jesus, to be faithful to Scripture, to pursue the mission of the church, and to accept correction if we stray in our walk with the Lord. Church membership is a promise that unites us, enables us to provide each other with accountability and support, and enables us to better pursue God’s mission by using our gifts together. Why should I become a church member? 1) Becoming a member is an important way to be faithful to Scripture. As outlined above, the word “membership” may not be used in the Bible, but it is clearly assumed that believers are gathered into local churches and covenant together to walk with the Lord and operate as Christ’s body. 2) Becoming a member let’s church leadership and other members know they can count on you. Promises take a relationship to a deeper level. Becoming a member is making a promise to participate in and support the ministry of the church as well as your brothers and sisters in Christ. Membership is a way to formally declare that you are counting on this body as your spiritual family and that they can count on you. 3) Becoming a member helps the church care for you more intentionally. Becoming a member enables church leaders to know their flock so that they can more intentionally encourage, support, and challenge you as you walk with the Lord. 4) Becoming a member opens the door to leadership roles. Churches want to be sure everyone who represents them in a leadership or teaching role understands and embraces their vision and values. While some volunteer opportunities may be available to anyone who wants to get involved, there are certain roles in a church that require the accountability of membership. 5) Becoming a member allows your voice to impact the future. Becoming a member gives you a voice at the family meeting. In order to speak to big family issues, it is important to know that you are committed to the family and embrace the vision and values. In some churches, membership enables you to vote at congregational meetings where members have a voice in matters such as who will lead the church as elders and deacons, and in the annual budget. A Final Word about Membership Membership in the church is not like membership in a club. When you hear the word “membership,” you might think of a country club or (like me) the wholesale store known as Sam’s Club. However, membership in the church is very different. Church members are not consumers, but contributors. I am a card-carrying member of the Sam’s Club. My membership or relationship with Sam’s Club works like this: I give them money, and they give me stuff. I don’t volunteer to sweep the floor or stock the shelves on Saturdays. I give money, and I expect goods and services. Unfortunately, many Christians attempt to bring this mentality into church membership. They think that if they put money in the offering plate, then the church is there to give them goods and services while they sit back and consume. Church membership is actually the opposite of this. Church membership is a commitment to the mission of the church to make disciples of Jesus. It is a commitment to participate, give, and serve. It is a commitment to serve God and others, not ourselves. More Blogs You'll Like What Is a Deacon? Exploring the Role, Qualifications, and Purpose of Deacons in the Church Read More What Is An Elder? A biblical definition of those who are called to lead Read More Why Church Membership Understanding the Biblical Foundations of Church Membership Read More