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Does God Change His Mind? Video Teaching Jon Delger Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Church Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 2 Creating Meaningful Traditions Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Q+A Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Bible Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 1 Jon Delger Withstand: How The Culture War Is A Spiritual Battle Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Where Do We Go From Here? Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Q & A Kelly Needham | Women's Christmas Party People Pleasing Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Are We a Christian Nation?

Sermon Discussion Questions 1 Title Sunday, February 18, 2024 Withstand Ephesians 6:10-13 Present Darkness vs. Spiritual Strength 2 Overview Main Idea: We need the whole armor of God if we are to stand strong. Sermon Outline: 1. We need to be all in because the enemy is all in (vs 10-11) 2. We need the right perspective to identify the true enemy (vs 12) 3. We need the whole armor for the whole battle (vs 13) 3 Pre-Questions What do you think of when you think about spiritual warfare? What kind of things stuck out to you in the sermon that you’d like to address further? 4 Questions In the sermon, Ryan said “The Devil has a specific strategy for you. He doesn’t use cookie-cutter strategies.” How does this impact your perspective on how you must fight? How does knowing our enemy change how we operate in the world around us? After hearing this sermon and reading this passage of scripture, who is God calling you to love that you wouldn’t naturally love? How will you put on the armor this week? When Jesus went to the cross he was most likely crucified naked in our place. How does Jesus’ death allow us to be able to put on the armor of God? How does the Gospel connect to putting on the armor of God? In light of this, how will you respond in worship? PDF Download

Cheyenne Werner Cheyenne Werner serves as the Women's Director at Peace Church. Most Recent Content from Cheyenne Werner Think Tattoo Not Nail-Polish Women’s Bible Study books are as numerous as nail polish color options. But unlike lacquer that can be removed with a swipe of acetone,... READ MORE

Four Steps to Manageable Sermon-Writing Leadership Jon Delger Multiplication Pastor Peace Church Published On: November 27, 2023 It’s Monday morning. You have to preach on Sunday morning. How do you get from here to there without waiting for that lightning-strike idea, without the Saturday-night cram, and amidst all the other things you have to do this week? For many pastors, that white screen with a slow-blinking cursor is a great source of anxiety. It certainly was for me. Prior to becoming a Lead Pastor, I relished my opportunities to preach. I enjoyed studying, writing, thinking creatively, public speaking, and I had a fair amount of experience for my age. One thing I lacked… the experience of preaching every week (actually it became twice a week for me, two different messages every Sunday morning and evening). I was not prepared for what it would take to generate that amount of material in that amount of time. That’s not to mention, good material. Messages that expound God’s Word, reveal the amazing God of the Bible, assure people with the promises of God, convict of sin, share grace through the cross of Jesus, and lead to action empowered by the Spirit. Initially, I did what many do. I doubted. Why did I become a pastor? I must have missed my calling. I can’t do this. It took some time, but finally, I realized this was not a matter of talent, intelligence, spirituality, or calling; my problem was actually a lack of a system. A system is just a way of doing something that gets you a predictable result every time. If you’re going to do something over and over (like preaching a sermon every week), then it’s worth having a system. You could always be smarter, have more training, have more experience, or have read more books, but the reality is that God has called you to this right now. So let’s quit feeling sorry for ourselves and figure out a system for writing faithful and fruitful sermons week after week. Four Steps to Manageable Sermon-Writing: Idea, Schedule, Draft, Edit One of the myths many pastors believe is that one just sits down and writes a sermon. Of course, this isn’t their own experience week to week, but they assume this is the experience of other pastors (the smarter and more talented ones). The reality is that you can have a more consistent and less stressful sermon-creating experience by breaking down the process and focusing on each step in its own time. One of the breakthrough moments in developing my own system was reading Jeff Goins’ article on his own three-bucket writing system ( https://goinswriter.com/three-buckets/ ). You’ll notice my system utilizes his three steps. Step #1: Generate Ideas All sermons are an exposition of God’s Word, but ideas for a sermon can come from many places: the text of Scripture, the felt needs of your church, relevant topics in your community, the calendar, etc. Be always on the lookout for sermon ideas. Collect ideas throughout your day every day and write them down. Write the main idea, the text of Scripture, and a working title. Identify whether you think this is an individual sermon or a series. Establish a system for collecting your ideas. I use a notes/writing app called Bear ( https://bear.app ). I have a tag called “sermon” with subtags for each of these steps. As the sermon progresses through the steps, I move the file through the tags (like folders). You could use other tools like Evernote, Microsoft Word, or a notebook. Set aside time occasionally to go through your ideas and develop them. Study the text of Scripture just enough to establish or confirm the main idea. You’ll do deeper study when you come to actually preaching that sermon. For now, your goal is just to do enough thinking, studying, and writing to make sure your idea works and clarify it for later use. Step #2: Schedule Sermons are written for real people in real-time and place. A sermon prepared in abstract leads to listeners who only have an abstract idea of what the text means and how it applies. Before developing a sermon further, figure out the time, place, and people to whom it will be preached. I plan sermons a semester at a time (three per year: Fall, Winter/Spring, Summer). For each semester, I create a document containing dates and slots for each sermon. Before the end of the current semester, I make sure to complete the next semester’s document using the ideas I’ve stored up. I also link my series and sermon overviews to that document and share them with other staff or leaders. Putting sermons on the calendar helps you plan concretely, plan around other things happening, and help other leaders plan around you. It also helps you commit to further developing and eventually preaching that sermon (for some of us, the struggle to commit to a sermon idea is actually what keeps us from writing the sermon). Step #3: Create Drafts This is what many might call the actual writing of the sermon. However, as we’ve already seen, sermon-writing does not just happen in a single step. Neither does drafting need to happen in a single sitting or even a single week. Once you know what you plan to preach in the coming weeks, it becomes much easier to collect ideas, notes, illustrations, applications, books, and articles related to that future sermon. Add these to the file you started in Step 1 throughout the weeks prior to preaching. By the time you get to the week of actually preaching that sermon, your work should be more about narrowing your focus than generating material. This is what leads to more consistency and less stress. Take your collected ideas and notes, reread them, and identify the main points of your sermon. Write out your explanation of those points. Choose illustrations and applications for each. Work out an introduction and conclusion. Create a conceptual draft - each point, illustration, or application stated in a single sentence. Create another draft expanding those sentences. Do it again and again until you have what looks like a sermon. Step #4: Edit When I write first drafts, they’re messy. I move from concepts in a first draft to more refined points and eventually to something like a loose manuscript. The more of your week you can spend editing and redrafting rather than generating new material, the better. Don’t be a perfectionist. I’ve often said - sermons are never finished, just preached. Make sure it’s faithful to Scripture, aims at application, and pray for the Holy Spirit’s work in you and your listeners. Once your material is written, practice your presentation. Then go to bed at a decent time on Saturday night. Sermon-writing Managed God has called you to preach. What he has called you to, he will equip you for. You don’t need to be somebody else, you need the Holy Spirit and… a system. You may have realized this system takes planning. It also means working on multiple sermons at the same time. If that frightens you, take baby steps. Start by planning just a few weeks in advance. Even if you don’t work on your draft before the week of preaching, at least you start the week knowing what you will preach. If you want to preach sermons that are faithful to Scripture and bear fruit in your listeners without waiting for lightning to strike, cramming on Saturday night, forsaking your other responsibilities of the week, or being overwhelmed by stress… break down the process. Idea, schedule, draft, edit, repeat. Keep preaching. More Blogs You'll Like How To Conduct Staff Reviews Read More How To Create A Church Budget Read More Four Steps to Manageable Sermon-Writing Read More

Sermon Discussion Questions 1 Title Sunday, April 28, 2024 The Church Never Preaches On... Matthew 25:41-46 Hell, the Occult, & the Demonic 2 Overview Main Idea: Hell is the ultimate horror, reminding us that our actions really do matter. Sermon Outline: 1. ...because the judge is Jesus Christ. (v41-45) 2. ...because the punishment is eternal. (v46) 3 Pre-Questions 1. What's a way that the world talks about Hell, that isn't true? 2. The topic of Hell can be uncomfortable. Why do you think that is? 4 Questions 1. How does Matthew 10:28–33 help our perspective? 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. 32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. 2. Read Revelation 20:10. Even though the image of the lake of fire is most likely imagery, what does this tell us about Hell? 3. Can you be a Christian and deny the existence of Hell? Why not? 4. How does God's act of pouring out his wrath - on sin and sinners - point us to the Gospel? How does this direct us to worship? PDF Download

Sermon Discussion Questions 1 Title Sunday, July 14, 2024 It Had To Be Said Matthew 5:38-48 Get Even 2 Overview Main Idea: Followers of Jesus express their Savior's heart towards others. They do not retaliate against those who wrong us or are unkind to us. Sermon Outline: 1. We express our Savior's heart by turning the other cheek and being willing to go the extra mile. 2. We express our Savior's heart by loving our enemies by loving our enemies. 3 Pre-Questions What initial thoughts or feelings did you have when you heard this sermon on Matthew 5:38-48? 4 Questions In Matthew 5:38-42, Jesus speaks against the principle of "an eye for an eye." How does Jesus' teaching differ from the cultural understanding of justice and retaliation during His time? How do you interpret the instruction to "turn the other cheek" and "go the extra mile"? Jesus calls us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us (Matthew 5:43-48). What practical steps can you take to implement this in your daily life? How can loving our enemies and praying for those who persecute us reflect the heart of our Savior? Reflect on a time when you felt the urge to retaliate. How did you respond? How might Jesus’ teaching influence your response if you encountered a similar situation today? PDF Download

Aaron Lewis Aaron Lewis serves as the Wayland campus pastor at Peace Church. He and his wife and children reside in Wayland, MI. Most Recent Content from Aaron Lewis Get Even Watch Sermon How the Gospel Changes You So to everyone in the chapel or down in the venue, hello to you as well. And then a special shout out to the Whaling Campus peeps. Super... Watch Sermon Test & Testify | Testing Spirits From 1 John All right, well, hey, good morning, Peace Church. Peace Church Wayland, special shout out to you. If you don't know, my name is Aaron.... Watch Sermon

What Can Satan Know & Is Job Real A Video of That's a Good Question Video Blog Jon Delger Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Church Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 2 Creating Meaningful Traditions Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Q+A Jon Delger I Didn't Know I Needed the Bible Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Session 1 Jon Delger Withstand: How The Culture War Is A Spiritual Battle Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Where Do We Go From Here? Jon Delger Coming Out of Catholicism | Q & A Kelly Needham | Women's Christmas Party People Pleasing Jon Delger Christianity and Politics: Are We a Christian Nation?

Sermon Discussion Questions 1 Title Sunday, December 29, 2024 Go Tell It On The Mountain Matthew 2:1-12 The News to His World (Wise Men/Epiphany Sunday) 2 Overview Main Idea: No one is beyond the good news of the gospel Sermon Outline: 1. The King of kings has come — Verses 1-6 2. Good News to Wise Men — Verses 7-12 3 Pre-Questions When you think of the Christmas story, which characters stand out to you the most, and why? Have you ever felt drawn to seek out something greater or more meaningful in your life? What motivated you to pursue it? 4 Questions In verses 1-6, the Wise Men arrive in Jerusalem seeking the newborn King of the Jews. What does their journey tell us about the recognition of Jesus’ kingship beyond the Jewish community? Reflect on Isaiah 9:6-7, which prophesies the coming of a ruler with an everlasting kingdom. How does this Old Testament prophecy enhance your understanding of Jesus as the King of kings? The inclusion of the Wise Men in the nativity story demonstrates that the message of Jesus is for all people, regardless of background. How does this inclusivity challenge or affirm your understanding of the gospel’s reach? Reflect on Ephesians 2:17-19, which speaks of Christ bringing peace to those who were far away and those who were near. How can we, as a faith community, embody this message of inclusivity and share the good news with others? In what ways can you actively seek Jesus in your daily life, emulating the Wise Men’s determination and commitment? How can you offer your own ‘gifts’—be it time, resources, or talents—in worship and service to Jesus? Are there individuals or groups in your community who might feel excluded from the gospel message? How can you reach out to them to share the inclusive love of Christ? PDF Download

PODCAST That's a Good Question Navigating the Thorny Path of Church Unity: What Really Matters? September 19, 2023 Jon Delger & Nate Harney Listen to this Episode JonHey everyone, welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church. This is a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm Jon, I serve as one of the pastors here at Peace, and I get to serve also as the weekly host of this show. And we're excited to launch this new year, new season of That's a Good Question. We want to reach people and help them grow in their knowledge of the Bible and their walk with the Lord. We think a great way to do that is by answering people's questions about the faith. We also think the best way to do that is through a podcast, so people can listen while they're at work, on their way to work, all that kind of good stuff, and there will be video clips available of some select parts of this, and I am here today with Pastor Nate. NateHey, everyone. I'm also one of the pastors at Peace Church, and it's a pleasure to be here, Jon. Yes, sir. We're gonna have some fun. We have some questions to talk about. The first big question we're gonna launch off with this. What is unity, specifically in the church? Question #1: What is unity, specifically in the church? JonWhat do you think, Pastor Nate? NateWell, what it is, and we've just been talking about this and focusing on this, is when we're aligned, aligned in what we believe, aligned in our mission, aligned in what we feel called to do as a church body. And Pastor Ryan just challenged us with, it's not just being in the same building or just generally being around each other, loving one another, serving one another, truly being part of a community together. So that's a little bit what church unity is and then I think of it... JonSo, what you're saying is that if we disagree about something we should just get over it and love each other, it doesn't matter. NateI wish it was that easy because there's kind of two extremes, I think, with church unity. There's unity at all costs, and that's kind of what you're alluding to, is just saying, hey, regardless of what we believe or how we act, for the sake of the unity of the church—and I think some people with well-intentioned belief that for the sake of our testimony as a church, let's just be unified at all costs. But we know that's not true unity. You can label it that, but just because you call it unity, it isn't that, because you're not unified if you actually don't believe the same things and if you're not actually on the same page. But then there is the opposite extreme, and I think the especially the modern Protestant evangelical church, what we're accused of more than many other things, is that we're so specific on our beliefs that we've totally thrown church unity out the door and we'll break up and split up and just splinter based on the smallest things. The joke is always they disagreed on what color carpet they want on the worship center, so they started two new denominations. I think that's very much exaggerated, but there is some truth to the fact that after the Reformation and the major Protestant and Catholic split, that the Protestants started kind of getting in that mode where it's like, okay, if we can't come to terms on something, if we can't be unified, then we just divide. Divide and divide and divide. So what is that middle ground of unity? That's crazy. And now with non-denominational churches, I mean, there's way more differences than that. If you don't have one of the 600 that you like, you just become an independent church, and then you can have your own specific set. JonRight. NateRight. JonTo piggyback this on that, or to tie off even just the idea of unity, having to be around what we believe also so I think of some of the things that scripture says about that I think of a passage that you and I are gonna get to preach soon talks about the unity of the faith and Ephesians 4 think of other passages that talk about Like-mindedness or being of the same mind scripture talks frequently about that's imperative for Christians Real unity comes from shared beliefs about God's Word Shared faith and what God says about about salvation about sin about reality. That's where true Christian unity comes from. I think especially in our area in West Michigan, there happens to be a lot of folks with a lot of family ties. I think family ties and just our culture lends us towards, let's just sweep some things under the rug and let's just get along and not worry too much about what we believe. But real church Christian unity is built around the Bible as the foundation. NateAbsolutely. And that's that's kind of as we're exploring that middle space of what does it mean to have true unity? You brought up the central. I think the foundational thing is your views on the Bible of do you really believe in God's Word? Is it authoritative? Is it inspired? Is it sufficient? Is it inerrant? That's kind of the most foundational thing But once you start to get into more specific questions than that, that's where I think it can get really tricky. I, in fact, was a part of a church one time where the pastoral team there would often say there are no secondary or tertiary issues. If it has to do with the Bible, it's all primary. And so that lead pastor, I remember specifically one week, he said, I wish we could do more in partnership with other churches, but we've never been able to find another church that we can partner with in any way, because we've never found another church that has all the exact same beliefs and the exact same practice that we do. So that was definitely an extreme case, but there's that. I don't want to start to interrupt. Jon So would that pastor think that that church is the only one that will be in heaven then? Nate No, that's another complexity, another layer, because if that was the case, I wouldn't have even attended that church for any amount of time. What ended up happening is they had a refugee ministry that I was involved in, and so I ended up staying there longer than I probably would have. But they definitely didn't say all these other churches don't understand salvation or they don't understand the faith enough, but for them partnership meant we agree on all aspects. So with them feeling comfortable formally putting their name together with another church, in their mind, they wanted to be unified on every single matter, even the smallest minutiae. For Peace Church, an example of how that practically plays out, is we pray for other churches in our area every week. And we pray for churches that we don't have all the exact same theological understanding as. We pray for our local Baptist church down the street, First Baptist, and we're actually, you especially are great friends with their lead pastor. Oh yeah. And we partner with them. I think... He's a great man who loves the Bible, loves the Lord, preaching the gospel. We have some things that we don't see eye-to-eye on that are in Scripture, but those are secondary, tertiary issues. Yeah. So you would say there is such thing as a secondary issue. I would say that, yeah, definitely. What would be something that you would say isn't a primary issue, is secondary? So it's still important, but it's not something you'd be willing to say, or you would say, we're not going to partner with those churches. What are some examples of disagreement? JonRight. So since we're already talking about one of the easy ones I think is baptism. So I even went to a Baptist seminary and yeah, we're a Reformed church. We baptize babies. We believe in covenant theology. We believe strongly in that. I won't give you the whole spiel here, but we teach that at different times about why we believe that God calls us to treat the family as a covenant family and baptize children. But I would see that as a secondary issue and we're happy to partner with churches that see differently on that. In fact, I think a lot of the churches we do stuff with do see differently on that issue. So, that's one. Yeah, so view of the end times. So, even within our church, we would say there are some key things that we say, yeah, we all need to agree on some of these key aspects of end times. But we have, even amongst our own pastors, have different perspectives on what the so-called millennium will look like, and we don't even have a total alignment on all that, because we think there is openness there. We don't think, we think it's okay to not have Revelation 100% nailed down every piece of how that's going to work out. NateYeah. That's interesting. And so what, just what would be a couple of primary issues, Jon, where you would say, if a church has a different view than us, we're not going to do an event with them, but we're not going to pray for their blessing on a Sunday and for them as partners in Kingdom ministry, because they're not partners. What would be some of those primary issues, besides believing the Bible is God's Word? JonYeah, the Gospel. So if they don't preach that Jesus lived, died, rose again, that that really happened and that happened in order to save people from sin and give them eternal life, then we would not be, we're not on the same team, right? We're not preaching the same message. We preach that gospel. Then I think some of the cultural issues of our day rise to that level. Things like sexuality. If there's a church that's affirming of same-sex behavior, we say that Scripture is pretty clear about that. We love those people. We hope that they turn from their sin to Jesus and receive salvation and walk with Jesus, but we don't affirm that. The Bible is pretty clear that it doesn't affirm that behavior. And so a church that's saying, this is good, this is in fact from God, is the opposite of what we're saying. And so we wouldn't pray for the Lord's blessing on them. We pray for the Lord to work in their hearts and maybe turn them from their ways. Similar gender ideology, I kind of put all that in the same category, same basket. NateAnd fundamentally, from the examples you're sharing, what I'm hearing is that ultimately it does come down to whether or not they see the Bible as God's word and obey as God's word. to have a different view on it is ultimately to have a different view of the scriptures, not as authoritative, not as inspired from God. Whereas when you bring up some of the nuances we might have on end times or our exact interpretation, maybe even on some of the finer details of creation and a perspective on that, where there is some gray area that we're trying to figure out, we're trying to navigate, those primary issues are crystal clear and foundational in Scripture. JonRight. The more clear Scripture is, the more there ought to be agreement. The issues where there's a little bit less clarity, like baptism, for example. Again, we believe it's clear, but we also see that there is ambiguity there, and we understand that, and I think I have tons of friends that are Baptists, and we give each other a hard time about that sometimes, just in fun. But we believe that there's enough ambiguity in the scripture there that we can both be faithful Christians who are seeking to follow the Bible, and yet we see these things a little bit differently. NateYou had some fun, specific questions that we could talk about about unity. Yeah, I know that have left the Protestant faith or the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church some of the guys I went through ministry training with and I've had people challenge me especially the guys who are in the Catholic Church of why is the Protestant Church not trying to make an effort to become reunified with the Catholic Church. So as a… Wait, are we not the same anymore? We tried to reform them. We tried our best. But Pastor Jon, if someone was to ask you, as a pastor in a Protestant church, and particularly in a Reformed church that still, you know, in certain ways and certain practices, to the outside onlooker, might look more Catholic in a couple of their practices or more similar to the Catholic Church, are you actively thinking through how we get reunited with the Catholic Church or not? JonThat's a great question. So I'm so glad that you thought of it and brought it up right before we started this. So obviously I had tons of times to prepare a great answer for this question. It's the most historical question of church unity, I think. It goes back a long ways. And what it comes down to is the doctrine of justification, what Martin Luther said, the church stands or falls on this doctrine. So in the 1500s, the reformers, Martin Luther, guys like him, realized that the Catholic Church had drifted from what the Bible teaches about the basic, clear, core gospel about Jesus living, dying, and rising, and doing so to take away our sins perfectly and completely by grace and not by any contribution of our own. So that had kind of been lost and drifted away from. And so that's the key distinction between Protestants and Catholics. Now I want to just be quick to say, if anybody's listening and you might be saying, well, I grew up Catholic and I don't see it that way, or I've got friends who are Catholic and don't see it that way. It's true that there are people who are worshiping, going to Catholic churches week in and week out and actually do understand the true biblical gospel, but if they do so, it's actually not in alignment with the teaching, the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. The official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church is a combination between grace and works, between what Jesus has done and what you do through doing the sacraments, through doing different things that your priest says, through going through repentance by confessing your sins to a priest, all those kind of things. It's a grace plus works system. And the Roman Catholic Catechism is even fairly honest about that. That's what it is. And so, so that's the thing. So now we're not looking for reunification except on those terms. I mean, that's the thing is if, if the Catholic Church decided one day to come to the Protestants and say, you know what, we, after much study and prayer, we actually agree with you on these things, then hey, we'd be glad to reunite. But that's the core thing that separates the Protestants and the Catholics. And so until that changes, we can't look for a reunification. Right. There is no unity if you're not unified on what is fundamentally true. And so even if we were to somehow say, hey, we're going to consider ourselves a part of the Catholic Church, or they were going to say we consider ourselves Protestant, if one of us didn't adjust our view on justification, it wouldn't be true unity anyway. So fundamentally, we are at a bit of a, we're in between a rock and a hard place where we're not moving on our view of justification, neither are they. Right. So it seems like. And it's been there for a long time now. It's been going for a while. Yeah. Maybe though a miracle will change and a pope will come in and say, hey, we've gotten this wrong all the way. Yeah. But we don't see that happening anytime soon. Right. Right. Yeah. Interesting. We do have plenty of people that come who grew up in a Catholic background and they come and they say, man, we've, you know, we're hearing what you guys have been preaching. We're studying the Bible. We're seeing some things that are different from what we grew up with and we're taught and we're so excited to get to hear the gospel and walk with Jesus with you guys. And we're so thankful for that. NateYeah. It's a shame because I think you'd look great in a tall pointy hat and robe. So I think you'd really rock the outfit. So too bad we can't. They do have much cooler robes than ours. That's cool. JonYeah. NateYeah. Any other unity issues you can think of? JonOh man, you brought up another great one earlier that I think we should talk about. Yes, question of, so we've talked about this primary versus secondary issues, and there's one tricky one that I think has been talked about for the last couple of decades about where is it? Is it primary? Is it secondary? What is it? And that is the question of gender roles. Complementarianism and egalitarianism are the official terms for the positions, but what you believe about what the Bible teaches about men and women and their roles in the home and in the church. So, Pastor Nate, what do you think? Is that a primary issue, a secondary issue? NateWell, part of the reason I've brought it up to you before is, in a season where I was working for a non-profit, I didn't even think about this, but it worked with a lot of different denominations and a lot of different churches, and I am complementarian, and I quickly found myself working with a lot of female pastors. And so I had to really think through what is honest for me to say because fundamentally, even though for some people they could take this as real personal and as offensive, I don't have a biblical category for a female pastor. I don't think the Bible has a category for it. That's not to diminish at all who they are as a person, certainly not to diminish their value as being made in the image of God and the specific gifts that God has equipped them and the specific missions that God has called them to. But as I read the scriptures, I don't see a category for female pastors. So how do I interact with a modern day female pastor as I try to partner with them to accomplish the Great Commission? I wish I could say I found a really clear, really easy answer, but for me, fundamentally, I realized that that wasn't sustainable for me to work in that environment long-term. Because while I didn't think it was an issue of salvation, I certainly thought it goes back to that fundamental question of how are we reading it through a timeless lens where we say, God, what are you trying to say to us, even when it's hard, and even when it doesn't line up with my modern understandings of culture and how things should work, versus just saying, hey, do you know what, times have changed, so I'm going to read into this through the lens of our modern culture, and I'm going to adapt what God's Word says to fit with my worldview instead of adapting my worldview to God's Word. And so for me, it didn't work. It just didn't function for me long term. So I wouldn't see myself partnering closely with an egalitarian church, I think we can be unified in some basic tenets of the gospel, if by gospel we're a gospel-centered church, one of the things we mean by that is we are biblical. We follow the Bible. And so that is one of those tensions. I don't think there's an easy answer. I think each individual has to decide for themselves, but what I've decided for myself that says too much about what they believe about scripture and ultimately, I believe, the path that they're heading down. Because I have found in my experience that most people I see transition to an egalitarian worldview, that path eventually leads to embracing the modern sexuality and gender, and then eventually just kind of an entire dismissal of the Bible as the authoritative, inspired, and errant Word of God. A lot of times that process is slow, and it doesn't always lead there. I have a good amount of friends who are egalitarian and who don't embrace an unbiblical view of sexuality or gender or of other issues, but that's just the trend I've seen, in my experience. JonYeah. So, yeah, short story for us at Peace Church, you know, the position that we hold is that God created men and women equal in value and yet distinct in role. So you highlighted that earlier by saying we're made equally in God's image, we're equal in value, and yet we have different roles. We look at passages like Ephesians chapter 5, we look at 1 Timothy, we look at different passages in Scripture that point to the different roles that God has designed for men and women. And ultimately, the whole Bible, starting with Genesis 1 and 2, just this distinction between men and women are not the same. God created them equal in value, and yet they're different. And that plays out in different ways in the home and the church. So much I want to say about everything that you just said. So primary and secondary issues, too. So this has been, you know, you referenced the idea of, is it a salvation issue or not? People have brought that kind of language to me before. Well, Pastor Jon, it's not a salvation issue. Well, in the sense that a Complementarian and Egalitarian can both believe in the gospel and be saved, that's absolutely true. And yet, we don't want to just sort of live by this minimum. We don't want to be minimalist Christians that say, well, I just want to get it right enough to get into heaven. We want to listen to and obey all of the Bible. So, yeah, so yes. Can you be saved on both sides of this issue? Absolutely. But we want to be as faithful to the Bible as we possibly can. NateAnd I could see the primary critique if somebody's looking at how I handle this and say, so you're the arbiter of what a primary and secondary issue is ultimately. If for you the difference is what's clear and black and white in Scripture versus where there's some gray area or room for honest interpretation, ultimately you're saying that you're your own arbiter for what's primary and secondary. And I'll say two things. Number one, there is a little bit of truth to that, where I understand that somebody might say, look at Revelation and say, I think that's as clear as interpreting the basic tenets of the gospel. I think it's so obvious that it's this specific view, and we would agree to disagree on that. But I do also think there is some objectivity here. There are a couple things that are just so clear in Scripture that as you're listening to someone try to defend a position that they're saying isn't clear in scripture, but it really is, you'll just start to watch them do these biblical gymnastics, and they'll start to explain this verse actually means the opposite of what it says, and so does this verse, and so does this verse, and this, you know, at this point where you go, this doesn't seem like it's a confusing gray area. It just seems like you don't like what the Bible is clearly saying. And so there is a little bit of subjectivity to what is primary, what is secondary, but I think if we're honest with ourselves and we're honest with the scriptures, we know. And the best story I can think of to tell that is I had a friend in high school who after we graduated, he had grown up actually in the Catholic Church, but we ended up going out to grab lunch, and he shared with me that he felt that he was a homosexual and that his intention was to live a homosexual lifestyle. And I asked him how he thought that, how did he remedy that with his Catholic faith, and I just actually really appreciated his honesty. He said, you know what, I've looked at the Bible. I think the Bible is clear that it says homosexuality is a sin and he said Therefore along with living a homosexual lifestyle. I'm also walking away from any Shred of faith that I did or didn't have at any time because that I don't agree with what the Bible says here and I've actually always gone back to that with a lot of appreciation because even though we completely disagreed on that, because I think the Bible is God's word and is the only authority that we can fully rely on in our modern crazy world where everything's changing all the time, but we totally agreed that the Bible was clear on what it taught. JonAnd that's the- A sad place he landed in, but he got there by honest, an honest looking at the Bible. Absolutely. So I think it's not as gray always as some people would have us think what's primary and what's secondary and I would add to that to the the history of interpretation is worth looking at History is not infallible like the Bible is but It's one thing to say I think it's I think it's worth realizing that some of the things that are being said now, what they're actually saying is, I disagree with what everybody has said about the Bible for 2,000 years. You know, it's just worth, like, realizing that. You know, history doesn't always get it right, but when you're saying, my generation now thinks something that the last 2,000 years of Christians didn't, and we think we're right and they've always been wrong, you just gotta say, wait a minute, let's just think about that for a little bit. I think that's a helpful way to look at it, too. So cool. Awesome. Well, brother, thanks for the conversation. Thank you. Thanks for talking. Thanks, everybody, for listening. Great to be with you today. Have an awesome rest of the week. Check this podcast out wherever you get podcasts and be sure to share with a friend. Bye!

The Story of Job - His Friends Sermon Series: The Story of Job Nate Harney Executive Pastor Peace Church Main Passage: Job 2-31 Transcript Well, good morning church. My name is Nate. I'm the family Pastor here, and whether you're joining us here in the Worship Center, or in the chapel, or downstairs in the family venue, we just want to say welcome. We're so glad you're here, and I am really excited to open up God's word with you this morning. My fears were confirmed So, my freshman year of college, I remember a call I received because it was late at night. I was just getting ready to go to bed. And if any of you have ever received one of those calls, that's just a little bit too late into the night or maybe even a little too early in the morning, your heart just starts to go. And my fears were confirmed when I answered the phone call from my dad, and he let me know that his mom, my Grandma, had had an unexpected medical emergency and that she would be likely dying within hours. I had gotten bad news before, but nothing like this in my life because my grandma did not know and love and follow Jesus. So immediately I just started praying, and I prayed for a couple of hours until I got the next call that let me know that she had passed away, and for all I know she likely rejected Christ to the end. The next morning, I woke up and the first person I saw was this guy named Paul, and he was becoming a friend of mine, and I was so relieved to see him because he wasn't just becoming a friend, but I knew he was a follower of Jesus. At that moment, what I needed more than anything else was just a Godly friend, just to pour my heart out to, to share what was going on. So I told him about my grandma. I told him she didn't know the Lord, and told him that she died. And what he said to me was the last thing I expected. He said, 'Nate, I hear what you're saying, and I know you're upset that your grandma's in hell, but you should not be mourning. You should be rejoicing right now.' And he said, 'God is enjoying her damnation, and you should be too.' And then he walked away. Do you know that in our hardest times of life when we're experiencing the worst loss and suffering, when someone comes into that grief, they can either comfort and help you through, or they also have the potential to make things a lot worse? As we continue on with the story of Job this morning, we're gonna see by looking at the friends who showed up in Job's grief that when we see others that are dealing with loss and suffering, we have an opportunity to come and help and to comfort, and we also have the potential to make things a lot worse. I want to be really clear before I move on because I know every time we gather, there are those of you here who might be new to the church, new to Christianity. Maybe you're just visiting and checking things out today, and I want to be really clear about something—we Christians do believe in the hard reality of hell. But the way my friend Paul talked about it was just completely and utterly wrong. I feel confident saying that because God said it himself in Ezekiel 33:11. God says, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked.' So what he was saying was wrong. He had very, very bad theology and even worse timing. And I'll tell you, in case you can't tell yourself, he did not help me in my moment of need. He made things a lot, a lot worse. His friends show up As we look at many chapters in The Book of Job that we're going to cover this morning. We're gonna see his friends show up on the scene and we know if you haven't been here for the last couple weeks. We know that Job was a man who encountered more loss and suffering than most of us could ever imagine. And this morning as we continue our journey with Job we're going to be diving into these chapters where these friends show up to try to comfort him and to try to help him and even to try to challenge him and there are ways where they did this really well and there are other ways where they completely missed the mark and we're gonna look at both. So if you would turn to Job chapter 2 we're going to jump in at verse 11 right where we left off last week. "And we're going to be seeking the answer to this big question this morning: How do we walk with our friends through loss and suffering? So, Job chapter 2, starting in verse 11, we're going to read through to the third verse of the third chapter. And I'd ask you this morning just to keep your Bibles open. We're going to be looking at tons of different passages as we go through this big chunk of scripture this morning. So, starting in chapter 2, verse 11: If you'd join with me, it says, 'Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that had come upon him, they came each from his own place: Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite. They made an appointment together to come to show him sympathy and comfort him. And when they saw him from a distance, they did not recognize him. And they raised their voices and wept, and they tore their robes and they sprinkled dust on their heads towards heaven. And they sat with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his suffering was very great.' After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. And Job said, 'Let the day perish on which I was born, and the night that said, "A man is conceived."' You pray with me? Prayer Father, we ask that you'd help us to understand your word this morning as we walk with Job and his friends. We ask that you would open our eyes to how we can be a comfort and help as our loved ones walk through seasons of loss and suffering. We pray all this in Jesus' name. Amen. Big Question So here's our big question again: How do we walk with our friends through loss and suffering? And how we're going to investigate that in God's word today is pretty simple. We're just going to first notice what Job's friends did well so that we can do it too, and then we're going to notice what they did poorly so that we can avoid making the mistakes that they did. We're going to start with what they did well, so if you look back to the Scriptures, back to chapter 2, verses 11 and 12: And we see here that Job's three friends, Eliphaz and Zophar, they show up. Look at what it says when they heard what was happening to Job. They made an appointment together to come to show him sympathy and comfort him. And Job is dealing with such a mess in his life, is dealing with so much hardship, they can't even recognize him anymore physically. He looks so different, his disposition has changed so much. And when they see that, they just mourn with him. They raise their voices and weep. And what they would do back in that day is they tear their clothes and sprinkle dust on their heads. So the first good thing I hope you're seeing here that Job's friends did was they showed up and they mourned with him. Now, showing up and mourning might seem like the most basic, most obvious thing. Do we even need to talk about this? But I'll tell you, as a pastor, I've seen countless times as I've walked through times of loss and suffering with different families, and different communities, that unfortunately, at these hardest times, it's often the times when our most loved ones stay the farthest away. "And sometimes that can be for selfish reasons, but I've found in the church when I'm interacting with Christians, it's often not for selfish reasons, but actually, they have these well-intentioned but wrong reasons. You might relate to some of these: maybe when you see someone close to you going through a really difficult time, you think, 'Hey, I don't want to be a nuisance. I'll just give them space. I'm sure they're busy. They have so much going on already. I'll just stay back.' Or maybe you think, 'I don't know what I would say at this point. I've never experienced anything like that myself, so I don't know what I would contribute. I'd probably just say something that makes things worse.' Or maybe you just think, 'I just think I'd be awkward in that type of situation, and I really think it would bless them more if I just didn't go.' Those feelings and those thoughts are real, and I get it. But many times, they're also lies that are keeping us from doing exactly what God has called us to do: to show up and to mourn with those who mourn. I remember in one of my first weeks here at Peace Church, I was in my office and I got a little knock at the door. So I looked, and it was Pastor Ryan, and he said, 'Hey, we've got to go. We are in between care pastors at that time, and he said, 'We just got a call. There's a couple in our church whose daughter has cancer, and she's just in her final moments, and we're gonna go and be with that family.' As we rode in his truck on the way there, I remember just kind of nervously confessing to my new boss that even though I'd been a pastor for a while now, I still hadn't really figured out what to do or say in these moments. I had some ideas, but I didn't feel equipped or comfortable to do it. I remember what he said to me because it's stuck with me, and I've carried it with me ever since. He said, 'Can I tell you something? In things this hard, nobody really knows what to do or say.'" "So we got some idea, but you've got to just show up and you just gotta follow whatever God has for you, and just by showing up, I found time and time again that God shows up and He works through us. So even if you take nothing else away today, I hope that you remember that the people of God, we show up and we mourn with those who mourn. So when you see your friends, your family, and your loved ones in times of deep grief, loss, and suffering, move towards them, and don't back away. If you look back at chapter 2 with me, this last verse 13, the start of chapter 3, we're going to see what else Job's friends did well. When they showed up, they sat with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and listen to this, it says, 'And no one spoke a word to him, for they saw his suffering was very great.' After their seven days of silence, it says Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. You can read in the whole of chapter 3 more and more of this, but Job says, 'Let the day perish on which I was born and the night that said, "A man is conceived."' As we look in this hard moment in the life of Job, as his friends sat there with him, we see another thing they did well: they were quiet and they listened to him. I want you to know, if you're one of those people who think, 'I don't know what to say in those moments,' if you're sitting there in the visitation line and you're getting nervous because you go, 'What can I contribute?' If you get the news and you're driving over to be with someone in pain and you go, 'Where do I even start?' I want you to know this is good news. Oftentimes, the best thing you can say is not much. Show up, mourn with them, be quiet at first, and listen. There's so much value brought in your quiet presence. There's so much value brought when you mourn with them and listen to them as they process deep grief. So we need to, as the people of God, do what Job's friends did well. And when we enter into these moments, we need to be quiet and listen. And I know for some of us, this is harder than others. I'm a talker myself. I know there are some talkers here. You live life like your radio DJ. That's just fighting that dead air time. If you're at a social gathering and there are three seconds of silence, you feel the compulsion to just fill that void with whatever you can contribute just to keep things moving forward. I get it. I'm one of those people. I want to challenge you this morning. I think people like us who have seen how our words have helped we can show up and just start spitting out anything we can think to say. Show up be quiet and listen, sometimes it's best just to keep your mouth shut at the beginning. And I know some of you don't relate to that because you would be more on the shy side of things. I want to ask you to be bold for one second. If you consider yourself a quiet, maybe even a shy person. Would you just raise your hand for a second? I want to see if there's anyone here. This is hard for you is that all the hands are going down really fast. It was up and down. That was your challenge. That was your challenge for today. Sorry for bringing so much attention to you. I want to encourage you more than challenge you because God has made you. a very special way and we live in a society that often lifts up and celebrates those who stand up who speak up and who lead with a loud voice, but we forget that God designed some To serve a special purpose and I would argue in times where people are hurting the most if that's you if you feel like I'm kind of more quiet more reserved. God has designed you to show up in these moments with your quiet and calm presence and you're listening ear and he has made you serve him and this beautiful way. Keep doing what you're doing and maybe those of us who aren't so good at it. We will watch maybe even listen and learn something as we watch you serve God in the way that you are designed to. So, how do we walk? With our friends through loss and suffering for following the good examples of Job's friends we show up. We mourn with those who mourn. We sit quietly and we listen. But unfortunately, we've hit the end of the road here in this third chapter of the really good things. We see jobs friends do and the next 20 some chapters. We see instead things we shouldn't do. So let's notice. What Job's friends did poorly? So that we can avoid making the same mistakes that they did. So if you're still got your Bibles open look at Chapter 4. Continuing from where we left off, let's look at what Job's friend Eliphaz says in Chapter 4. Starting from verse 3, Eliphaz speaks to Job: "Behold, you have instructed many, and you have strengthened the weak hands. Your words have upheld him who was stumbling, and you have made firm the feeble knees. But now it has come to you, and you are impatient; it touches you, and you are dismayed. Is not your fear of God your confidence, and the integrity of your ways your hope?" Eliphaz begins by acknowledging Job's past ability to provide instruction and strength to others. However, he quickly shifts to a judgmental tone, implying that Job's current suffering is a result of impatience and a lack of fear of God. This response overlooks the immense tragedy that Job has experienced, including the loss of all his possessions and children. Eliphaz fails to offer comfort or understanding and instead suggests that Job's suffering is a consequence of his own wrongdoing. This highlights one of the mistakes made by Job's friends. They did not always speak about what was true or timely. They failed to grasp the depth of Job's pain and instead offered misguided explanations and accusations. Their words were not aligned with the reality of Job's situation, and they missed the opportunity to provide genuine comfort and support. It is important for us to learn from this example and strive to speak the truth and timely words of comfort and encouragement when we encounter friends or loved ones going through loss and suffering. We should seek to understand their pain and offer empathy rather than rushing to judgment or offering simplistic explanations. True support requires us to listen attentively and respond with compassion and understanding. Elafaz says this to Job. Verse 7, "Remember: who that was innocent ever perished? Or where was the upright cut off? As I have seen, those who plow iniquity and sow trouble reap the same. By the breath of God, they perish, and by the blast of his anger, they are consumed." So let's sum up Elafaz's message to Job here says job. You want to know why your kids are dead because they were not innocent and in the blast of God's anger.

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